The Makeup Insider
The Makeup Insider is a fortnightly one-on-one podcast exploring the life and career of makeup artists, hosted by freelance mua Vanessa Barney.. Finding your community of other likeminded mua’s – the creative, artistic, talkative, flexible, adaptable with a good eye for colour kind-of-people, can often be daunting. Like, where do you start? The Makeup Insider is designed for just that. To build a collaborative online community of artists to build their confidence, connections and help drive their career to the next level.If you’re just starting out or have been in the industry for a long time, tune in now, check out the key takeaways in the show notes and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Find Vanessa @vanessabarney @the.makeupinsider
The Makeup Insider
How Kath Carlin Traveled the World as a TV Makeup Artist
Kath Carlin, a Melbourne hair and makeup artist, shares her journey and experiences in the industry.
She discusses her work across various platforms, including network TV, TV commercials, fashion events, and sports broadcasts.
Kath emphasises the importance of adaptability, building connections, and having a positive attitude in the industry. She also highlights the value of knowing one's strengths and weaknesses and being open to learning and improving.
Kath shares stories of working with high-profile talent and the opportunities that arose from putting herself out there. In this part of the conversation, Kath and Vanessa discuss the fear of rejection and the importance of reaching out to people. They also talk about Kath's experience working as a makeup artist for tennis tournaments and weddings, where she got to travel the world for 10 years.
Kath shares her insights on the mindset and attitude required for success in the industry.
They emphasise the importance of being on time, creating a positive atmosphere, and adapting to the needs of different clients.
Kath Carlin discusses her journey as a TikTok sensation and how she found her passion for comedy. She talks about overcoming fear and shame to post her videos and the viral success she experienced.
Kath shares her process of creating TikTok videos, including writing, filming, and editing. She also discusses the challenges and criticisms she faces as a makeup artist on social media.
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Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-round beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals, to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick, and if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy Today on the Makeup Insider. I'm joined by the fabulous Kath Carlin. She is a Melbourne hair and makeup artist. Thanks for joining me, kath. Thanks for having me. I'm joined by the fabulous Kath Carlin. She is a Melbourne hair and makeup artist. Thanks for joining me, kath.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1:Yay, Thrilled to have you. Can you just let the audience know where they can find you on social media and what you spend your days, like your weeks. What does your work life? Look like these days.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you can find me at kath carlin makeup on instagram and on tiktok. You can find me at kath carlin, but on tiktok it's more funny stuff rather than makeup stuff, but you can go over there to have a laugh and a day, did you say, like a day in the life?
Speaker 1:like what's what's? What do you do? What's your work life look like?
Speaker 2:So I'm a hair stylist and makeup artist, and I've been working for about 20 years and I'm based in Melbourne. Any day can look different because I freelance. So, for instance, today I'm going to Channel 7 to do the news. Tomorrow I will be doing a commercial for, I think, sportsbet. Yesterday I did a big shoot for a beautiful dress designer these beautiful red carpet dresses, yeah and we did a huge photo shoot with all her new range. So, yeah, it's different every day.
Speaker 1:So you work sort of across network TV TV commercials, fashion events as well? Yeah, so I network TV TV commercials fashion events as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'd say primarily television and commercials, tvcs. I also do bridal. I do events. I do a lot of events, a lot of red carpet stuff. I haven't delved too far into fashion. I think the most fashion-y thing I did was that dress shoot the other day. That's as far fashion as I usually get and yeah, and I think that, yeah, that's about what I usually do to be employed yeah. Keeps you busy. Right, it really does. I know it's interesting like when.
Speaker 2:I tell people that I've just met they do hair and make-up. They always say is there enough work to keep you employed? And I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been working for 20 years now.
Speaker 1:So there's actually enough work to keep you employed 24 7, like you could work really, you could just not stop working really literally yeah, um. So where did it all begin for you hair and makeup wise? How did you get into it?
Speaker 2:so, when I was probably 16, I was like I want to be a makeup artist, and my parents were like, that's fine, but just finish school. When I got to year 12, I was like, no, I still want to do this makeup thing. And my school at the time this was like 2002 they were like, well, that's not a job that exists. And so they kept trying to encourage me to do beauty therapy. And I'm like, no, I actually want to put makeup on people's faces. Luckily for me, though, my dad is a film and television director and he's been working for years and years and he's really quite well known in the industry, and my dad was like it is absolutely your job. Let me do some research for you. So he asked a makeup artist that he was working with at the time, and they suggested that I do a one-year full-time course at Vic Uni. Okay, and at the time I don't know what it's like now, but they only took 16 people a year. So you had to do a portfolio, and I mean, I had no idea. We didn't have YouTube, we didn't have anything like that. So I just did make-up on my mum and my sisters and took Polaroids and stuck them in a folder and I went in there and did my interview and I got in and that course was four days a week. It was almost the same as school hours, like nine to four, four days a week for a year full time. And he kind of covered everything from you know, normal makeup, sort of fashion, prosthetics, drama, wig making, bald caps, all of that and you just sort of lightly touched over everything and a little bit of hairstyling as well. And part of that course was that you had to have a certain amount of work experience hours. So it was really good. So they made you go to like amateur theatre companies and make up people.
Speaker 2:I remember being out at like some sort of shopping centre and doing a fashion parade for Supre, just anything to get you out there. And then there was another component of the course which I think was just paramount and that was the business side of it how to set up your business. So they helped us set up an ABN and how to run a business, because if you're doing makeup but you're not running your business, it's a hobby, it's not a career. So yeah, I think like I highly recommend that course.
Speaker 2:Obviously you're not going to really learn too much as a makeup artist until you actually get out into the field and start working. But I really did learn the basic principles there in that course and I highly recommend it. Yeah, and because of my dad, my connections I was able to start working at Channel 7. I made up the lotto person, the person that read the lotto numbers. Yeah, I was absolutely wrapped. I was so wrapped and I learned pretty quickly that my makeup course with a tiny bit of hair styling in it, wasn't going to cut it if I wanted a career in Melbourne, because you do need to be able to style hair if you want a career.
Speaker 2:I think fashion's different, I think they do it separately, but sort of TV, sort of stuff you really do need to do hair and makeup. But because my dad you know everyone was friends with my dad, they gave me a chance and they encouraged me to go and do a hairdressing course. So then the following year so that would have been 2004, I did a one-year full-time hairdressing course Okay, at Headmasters. So on paper I am a hairdresser. However, ever since I left that course, I've never cut anyone's hair, I've never coloured anyone's hair, but I can style hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Could you do a men's cut or no?
Speaker 2:Oh no, no, no, You'd be better off doing it with a knife and fork.
Speaker 1:No, so it did teach you some really good foundations of hairstyling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then as I started working and started getting more work in TV, I started being able to ask the right questions, of like, when I'm doing a blow wave and I want it to go under rather than out, you know you get one side going like that. I knew how to ask the questions and then I actually went back to I can't remember the name of the course, but I went back and did a quick styling course just to really get good at blow waving. So I'm a really strong blow waver. I'm a really strong hair out doer, hair extension doer, ponytail doer, yeah. But um, yeah, if you want the really intricate hairstyles, I'm not your girl okay.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I suppose in the world you work in you're not doing intricate hairstyles unless you're doing bright or right, but I think being a strong blow waver is such an advantage as a makeup artist it's a skill I recommend everyone learns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, driving a manual car. You just never know when you might need it yeah, being able to blow dry is the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, it's a shortcut really. Yeah, so so you pretty much went straight into, was it?
Speaker 2:channel seven it was channel seven, so they. Basically what my dad said is I can put in a good word for you. Yeah, I can't promise you work. And his advice was and I still live by this advice go in there and do the shitty jobs with a good grace, and you won't be doing those shitty jobs for long. And you know what? I still do the shitty jobs. I will still pick up someone's dirty brushes and wash them. I'll still go get the coffees. You sweep the floor, you just you go do the towels. You do that so that it works for everyone.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I was lucky enough that I was getting regular work at channel seven, but I think the the job that sort of made me a makeup artist was back in the day. We had these photography studios. Yeah, before you had filters and phones and everyone knew how to do makeup teenagers do better makeup than I do now. We had photography studios where people came and got their hair and makeup done and we did three different looks with them and they got some nice photos to take home at the end of the day. And I worked at a place called Blush Photography.
Speaker 2:Basically, it taught me so many skills. Firstly, you're working with the general public, so you know you're not working with models or TV people.
Speaker 1:They're just, you know average looking people.
Speaker 2:You've got to work within a time limit, you've got to do hair changes and you also have to adapt your personality to suit whoever your client is.
Speaker 2:If you've got someone young and fun and having a champagne, you know, maybe have a laugh with them, but you might have someone that's really nervous and they're only doing this because you know their work made them get some nice photos, you know. So it really taught me how to work quickly, how to work on any sort of skin tone, any sort of face, and how to adapt my personality to suit my audience, basically. So, yeah, well, it's not a job that anyone does anymore, but, like for me, that was the job that really made me good at what I do.
Speaker 1:I think how long did you have to do hair and makeup? Was it an hour?
Speaker 2:You had an hour and then you had like 10 minutes to do a hair change and a lip change, yeah, so I can't tell you how many times working in that working, for I think I worked there for three years at that photography studio how those skills have helped me when I'm on any shoot where we've got to move quickly. We've got to do hair changes really quickly. You learn shortcuts, you learn how to do it, how to prepare, how, while they're shooting, you have everything ready for the next look yeah so yeah, those skills were amazing, I think when, when did you do that?
Speaker 1:because I know, because I was doing hair back then and hair tools weren't what they are today. I, I mean, I know the Muster came out in the early 2000s. We loved a Muster. We loved a Muster, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I do remember that I was curling with a GHD or something, oh okay, yeah, so. I would say it was like 2004.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so the GHD was out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because yeah, tools. Today there's just so many hair tools.
Speaker 2:It works with you now, not against you. I was putting hair in rollers and all of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, good old hot rollers. Still love a hot roller. We all love a hot roller, love them. Can you explain to listeners, because some people wouldn't know what it's like to work in TV? Or, you know, go and do the news. What does a shift consist of?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because when people say to me, why are you going to work at 10am, the news isn't on until 6pm and I'm like, well, firstly there's updates.
Speaker 2:Secondly, there's more than one person that needs to be made up and you know there's only so they have allocated times in the make-up room. So basically you go in there. You know there's only so. They have allocated times in the make-up room. So basically, you go in there, you set up and your first person will come in and you'll do their hair and make-up. You'll get them ready and it's not just hair and make-up, like you'll be doing their tan. You make sure you check what they're wearing and you make sure that everything's matching. You'll go down on set and check them and then you sort of what I do now. I put an alarm in my phone and every time they have an update I will go down to the studio to check them and in the meantime the next person will come in for hair and makeup and sort of rinse repeat and I mean it's not just slapping a bit on, it's quite a job.
Speaker 2:These days, like when I started out, we didn't do eyelashes, we didn't do hair extensions or anything like that, but now everyone has lashes, everyone has extensions it just goes without saying.
Speaker 2:And so you basically do the hair and makeup, do checks, do standby for their pre-records and then let's just say it's the news. You then go down at a quarter to six, set everyone up and then you stay in the studio and on the ad breaks you do touch-ups and if something really dire has happened when we cross to a story, you can go in and like, fix the hair if you know we need to.
Speaker 1:You try not to bother the talent until it's an ad break yeah, and what about when it comes to the look that you're doing on them hair and makeup wise?
Speaker 2:well, look, I think that you've got to work with the presenter and what they like, and sometimes your opinions differ, that you've got to work with the presenter and what they like, and sometimes your opinions differ, and you've got to meet them halfway, I think. Because at the end of the day, if they don't feel comfortable, they're not going to perform well. And I remember this is what my dad said years ago as a director. He said when he's about to call action, the actor isn't looking over at the director, they're looking over at makeup and wardrobe going. Am I okay? He's like.
Speaker 2:So that's what they're thinking about and they don't want to be thinking about. Oh God, do I look? Shit, is this lip colour wrong? Blah, blah, blah. So if it's a regular talent, they actually have their own box of makeup, so you don't need to sit there thinking about what foundation color, what lip color, da, da, it's all in there. And basically let's just say we've got jane bun and she says I'm wearing orange tonight. Maybe we'll do the warmer tones on her. Or she might say I'm wearing purple, maybe we might make it a little bit cooler. You know something like that. But overall it's sort of they'll have a look and we just sort of you know, rinse, rinse, repeat, adapting to whatever they're wearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've been working with a lot of those talent for a long time. If you're working with a new talent who you haven't worked with before, do you do any research Like? Do you have a look at them on Instagram? Oh, I Google everyone.
Speaker 2:I Google everyone. I stop their Instagram just to be like, okay, she usually wears her hair in a bun, that's good to know. Or you know she likes you know it might be like a basketball or just say this happened recently, I was making up a basketball. Or I'd never met her before. I Googled her and I was like, okay, she's a sporty girl, but she actually likes glam, so that's good to know. I'll make sure I have lashes set up. And then it's just a matter of asking them.
Speaker 2:And what I tend to say to people is you know, hi, lovely to meet you. Who are we? What's our vibe today? Who do you want to be? Who do you want to be today? This is just hair and makeup. If you don't like something, shout out, let me know. My feelings aren't hurt, we can take it off. It's not surgery, it's not a tattoo, it's a frigging eyelash. We can take it off. My feelings won't be hurt. You need to be comfortable and I think once you sort of have that disclaimer, they relax, you can see them relax and then you know, sometimes people are like I like my fringe like this and I like this like that, I'm fine. I'm fine with direction. Other people are like you, just do you. And I'll just say, okay, cool, I'll do what I think. Once I'm done, we can readjust if we need to. Yeah, and I think, yeah, as long as you have an open conversation and, as the artist, you don't get your feelings hurt if they don't like it, it's usually pretty smooth sailing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I do think people are afraid to tell you when they don't like something, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Because you don't want to have feelings ripping the chair. Yeah, just like it's. You know? Just let's just relax here it's. We're not saving lives. We're tapping a bit of hair and makeup on. You don't like it. We change it. You know what? If you want to do your own mascara, if you want to blow away your own fringe, go for it. I don't care. Let's not be precious. Let's get you to the look get. Let's get you looking as hot as we can and you feeling as comfortable as we can.
Speaker 2:I think you know that's the goal at the end of the day yeah, we're all working together.
Speaker 1:Are you doing both hair and makeup on these shifts, or just one or the other?
Speaker 2:yeah, pretty much every job I do hair and makeup. Um, the only time I don't is for weddings. I I only do makeup for weddings, okay, because, as I said, I am not the strongest hair updoer and I think it's just important to own what your strengths and weaknesses are. You know, I'm not a prosthetic makeup artist either, but if you want to look pretty, mate, I'm your girl, like I can do it. If you want your hair out in waves and extensions, I'm your girl. And just knowing your strengths and weaknesses, so yeah, for weddings.
Speaker 2:I got lost in a hairdo once. She wanted a lot of braids and I got completely lost and I absolutely panicked and thank God my friend was there as well on the wedding and she had to take over and I thought you know what? I don't want to be in that situation anymore. I don't want to make a bride feel uncomfortable like that anymore and I don't want to kind of lie and say I can do something if I can't do it, because it's too scary when you can't do it. So, for weddings, yeah, I'm just a makeup artist, but weddings and everything else, hair and makeup.
Speaker 1:And like when you get lost in a hairstyle, it's pretty scary, isn't it? Like you're sort of sweating.
Speaker 2:I like sweating. My heart is thudding and I'm like you know what I could just run, Just run for your life. Just get out of here. Never come back. Move off grid, live off the land. Never come back.
Speaker 1:I love it. Live off grid. Have you ever in a situation at the networks where you're doing someone's doing hair and you're doing makeup? Yeah, all the time. Yeah, okay, and so how long do you generally get for hair and makeup about an hour.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah. So one's on hair, one's on makeup, you get about an hour. Yeah, it depends on the person as well. Some people are quicker to do, some people, you know it depends if they've got extensions and blah, blah blah. But generally it's sort of like an hour one on hair, one makeup and do you work across multiple networks now?
Speaker 2:I used to. I've worked at all of them. I still work regularly at Channel 7. I work for AFL a lot now. Okay yeah, so that's out of AFL House. Is that any people? Or is that Fox? No, neither, it's actually AFL, oh, it's just completely separate.
Speaker 2:AFL, yeah, and that's just all their talent. They do a lot of online stuff, okay, yeah, it's actually really good and the pay is good. So, yeah, yeah. And then I also work for racingcom a fair bit, okay, yeah, they do Racing is year-round, so they do lots of stuff. Sometimes I'm out at the track, sometimes I'm in the studio with those guys and, yeah, it's all pretty regular. It all sort of evens out Plus. What else have I been doing recently? For someone who's not sporty, I'm doing a lot of sports stuff. I've been working for ESPN, I've been doing a cricket show and I've also been doing a basketball show.
Speaker 2:Gosh cricket show and I've also been doing a basketball show.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, your shifts. Are they still four-hour minimum? Is that still how it works?
Speaker 2:But that's at Channel 7. All the other ones pay freelance rates, oh okay. Yeah and I just say half-day, full-day.
Speaker 1:Okay, and half-day is five hours or four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, four hours.
Speaker 1:If it goes into five hours, I'm still charging a half day, that's fine, yeah, yeah, and then four days, eight, if someone's listening and they want to work in this kind of world, how would you recommend getting an in, like how to get in?
Speaker 2:Well, if you can contact, find out whoever the head of department is, contact them and say I'd love to come in for a trial, and that's what we usually do. So someone will come in and you'll do a trial. Someone did a trial on me the other day Just to see where you're at with your skills, because they always need people, always always need people, and you know. If the trial doesn't go well or whatever, you can say how do I need to improve? Can I go back and you know, improve my skills? And then can I come back in a month or so and redo it. And I think, like across the board, most people are pretty open to that and giving everyone a go, especially, especially at channel seven.
Speaker 2:I know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, all right, so let's get back to you. Worked at your photo studio for a while. You did some network stuff. Where did you?
Speaker 2:where was next? So I have never had an agent. Most of my career, social media wasn't like. When I was starting out, social media wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2:And honestly if you look at my social media now, I don't think you can employ me as a makeup artist because most of it's comedy now, yeah, but yeah, I've literally worked from word of mouth, I, yeah. So basically, like I started doing the lotto, I worked at the photography studio, then I started doing you know, the lotto. Then they got me on more shifts there and then you know, someone would be sick and they needed to make a part of a deal or no deal and then I'd do deal or no deal.
Speaker 2:and then they liked me, so we'll take you on this show. And guess what? You know, someone from Channel 9 worked with you on this show and they'd like you to come and work over there. And then this talent really liked you, so they're going to use you for this, and so it sort of progressed like that. And then I, you know, I ended up having some really have had some really amazing career highlights just through working with people doing a good job, going in there with a, you know, a good attitude, showing up on time, and they want to work with you again. So I'll give you an example I have a friend, sarah Klein, and we, we love working together. You know Sarah, don't you? I know Sarah love Sarah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's great and right and you know we always sort of ask each other to do jobs with each other anyway. For years and years she'd been working at the Australian Open for ESPN and they adored her. They absolutely adored her, and I think they were having trouble with their makeup artists when they went to the other grand slams like the French Open, wimbledon and the.
Speaker 1:US.
Speaker 2:Open and they were like you know, france, I think people you know they only work a certain amount of hours and you can either do hair or makeup.
Speaker 2:They don't do bows and you know, it's just a different sort of way that they work and Sarah was very reliable. So I think what they said in the end to the talent was what do you like? How can we make this good for you? And they said well, we like the way Sarah does us. And these are all ex-tennis players, so we're talking like John McEnroe, chris Everett, martina Navratilova, lindsay Davenport, all of those sort of big names. They were like we like the way Sarah does her hair and makeup at the Australian Open.
Speaker 2:So they said, well, why don't we start bringing her to the Grand Slams? And we need another person. So Sarah said do you want to come with me and do the French Open, wimbledon and US Open? I'm like, oh yes. So yeah, I was 26 years old when I did my first French Open. Basically, they fly you over there. This is America as well, so they've got money. Yeah, so they fly you over there, they put you up in a hotel, they pay you per diems, they feed you and they pay you in US dollars. So it was just like this unicorn of a job that I did for 10 years. It only stopped when COVID happened.
Speaker 2:I think that they realised that they couldn't get local people to put lipstick on quite well. So, yeah, we did that for about a decade Paris, london, new York every year, and in between the French Open and Wimbledon it's like a three-week break and you're already in Europe, so you might as well stay. So my partner, he'd come over and we'd just go travelling and then I'd, you know, go to London and do Wimbledon and he'd go home. So, yeah, that was just like right place, right time. That sort of thing like that had nothing to do with me. That was all. Sarah that got that gig, got that gig and, yeah, that ended up just changing my life. I got to see the world, I got to travel. I didn't have a Melbourne winter for 10 years.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh and let me just tell you in COVID June 2020,.
Speaker 2:I was pregnant as well. I was like what is going? On here it's freezing. So, yeah, that was, yeah, one of the best gigs I've ever done. That's an amazing gig, it was brilliant, it was absolutely brilliant. And that led to one time for the US Open. We had to get there earlier because Phil Collins was the opening act for it, so we had to do pre-records. So I spent two days in New York with Phil Collins shooting this pre-record for the start of the US Open. Oh, how amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and drank wine with him in the make-up room. Afterwards I was like who am I? I love that, yeah, and it's just like chance encounters that lead to that sort of stuff, and I'll give you another example actually is Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2:I'd always wanted to work on it but I knew they had a team and you know you're always intimidated, like you're intimidated by the unknown. I'm still intimidated and I've been doing this for 20 years and anyway, I just thought, just bite the bullet and text the head of department, who at the time is a good friend of mine, now Marge Annesley and I was just like hey, I'm sure you've got your own team, but like, perhaps, maybe, if you know you might need an extra set of hands, I'd love to help. She wrote back straight away and said I thought you'd never ask and I was like, okay, so you just have to sometimes put yourself out there. So anyway, they put me on with the judge and the host and the judge at the time was Kim Johnson, was she did it. She was a dancer on Dancing with the Stars in Australia and then she went over to the States and was a dancer over there and she absolutely killed it over there. The Americans loved her. So she's come back to be a judge here and her and I just hit it off. She loved the way I did her hair and makeup and we just we did a couple of I think a couple of seasons together.
Speaker 2:She went back to LA and one day she called me and just said hey, I'm doing a shoot in LA, I'm doing a shoot for my new brand. I'd love you to do my hair and makeup. So I got phoned to LA to do her hair and makeup for some shoot, some dancing brand or something like that. A little bit further down the track she is still doing Dance With the Stars in America and her dance partner is a guy that's on Shark Tank, robert Herjavec, and she's like we're actually falling in love and we're getting married and I'd love you to do my hair and make-up for my wedding and I'd love you to come and, of course, your partner's invited. So next thing, I know my partner and I are, you know, off to LA getting all expenses paid. I do her hair and make-up and we go to this unbelievable wedding in LA.
Speaker 2:Olivia Newton-John was singing. I've got photos of me singing with her. At the end of the night my partner was slow dancing with Carson Kresley and I don't think we got home until 7 in the morning. Amazing, it was incredible. We ended up, I think, partying at some like famous photographer's mansion until 7 in the morning, I was in a ball gown and I was just like this all happened from that one text message that I sent to Mark, just putting myself out there. I felt really uncomfortable doing it, just putting myself out there, and that experience happened because of that. So that's what I always say to people like take a chance, like actually take a chance Put yourself out there.
Speaker 2:The worst they can say is no, and who cares? Who cares?
Speaker 1:Move on or they just don't respond.
Speaker 2:Or they don't respond. It happens all the time and you stop caring after a while.
Speaker 1:Exactly. My memory is so bad now that I forget what I've done. So if I ever reach out to people, I actually like the next day I've forgotten that I did it. So then, if they don't respond, I don't remember anyway.
Speaker 2:Say bye, who cares?
Speaker 1:Move on, yeah but once upon a time it used to haunt me for like maybe a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're like do they hate me? Let me check their Instagram. They unfollowed me because maybe I offended them. Yeah, who cares? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Make up stories. Makeup stories? No, they're not. They're so not, and I think you made a really good point there. What was the lady's name? Was it Marg? Did you say yeah? Yeah, when you messaged her, she said to you I thought you'd never ask, so people don't always know that you're interested in doing these types of things unless you tell them absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I was so scared of her because she was senior and, you know, older than me and had done lots in her career when she she was just so kind to me and I was like that was something that I built up in my own head. And there was one night I was having trouble with a ponytail and extensions and I needed a second pair of hands. And she is the head of department. She just raced in there and was like here, you I'll hand you pins. And I just learned from her she she didn't think she was better than anyone. She's just working as a team and let's just get this done. And that's sort of what I've tried to sort of model myself on is just doesn't matter how senior or junior you are, we're all on the same team, so let's all just work together yeah, for sure, can we go back?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think that's an awesome job. So you did that for 10 years I did. How fun. So did you just like schedule your life around that job?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'd be doing.
Speaker 2:And the great thing was so you'd go over and do the French Open, which is the end of May, into June I think, and then you have your three weeks in Europe and then you do Wimbledon. That takes you into July.
Speaker 2:So you come back, sort of July-ish, to Melbourne. It's freezing cold and you're a bit annoyed, but then you're like in five weeks I'm going to New York, so who cares? So you'd only get a snippet of the Melbourne winter. And yeah, it honestly is one of those unicorn jobs that you're just like. How did I get here? And you know what? I never took it for granted. Like in New York, I was, you know, would be staying at the same hotel as all the tennis players, like Serena would be in the lobby and you know Nadal and everything. They did go up a different elevator to me.
Speaker 2:I was in the Plebs elevator, and then we'd have a driver that would come and pick us up from the hotel.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a driver. Like who am I? No, and then drivers out to the tennis. You had all your food, like everything set out for you. You had a runner that would run and get you coffee, Like it was this amazing gig and yeah, but I will say, though you do work your ass off. There is a cast of thousands. They were all ex-tennis players as well, so you know they're quite famous, especially in america.
Speaker 2:All lovely, but you know, everyone's got special needs and you know certain tastes. So obviously, just like any other makeup job, you need to cater yourself to suit whoever's in your chair at the time. And, um, you have to work really quickly, really, really quickly, because you've got to get maybe 12 talent out there before the first match and quite often they do a show before the first match, so you'd have to get them all ready on set. And then you also have to learn how to read a schedule, because then you'd be like, okay, so-and-so's over at this commentary box, so-and-so's over there, someone's in the garden, da-da-da. And then you have to run out and do touch-ups and then just kind of make sure you're across all the matches over the course of the day. So if one looks like it's finishing up, you're like, okay, okay, they're going to close out of that studio, that comm box, so I better run over there now and just do a touch-up, so that they can do it on camera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they. You work your ass off in the morning and you're sort of on the ball all day. You do about 25 000 steps a day and and you, you, sometimes we're working 17 hour days because okay this goes it's open-ended.
Speaker 2:You know it's not like a game where you know it's going to finish at a certain because it's open-ended. You know it's not like a game of figure, where you know it's going to finish at a certain time. It's open-ended, so you can be there till 2 in the morning and you just, you know it's one of those jobs that pays really well, it's great conditions, but you just have to suck up that you're going to work long hours and that you probably won't get your schedule for another hour after you get home. So you another hour after you get home.
Speaker 1:So you've got to wait there to get your schedule, to find out what time you start the next morning, and that's just yeah yeah, so sometimes you you do miss out on sleep and, to be honest, I was 26 when I started that gig.
Speaker 2:I was going out every night, absolutely every night. I went out, yeah, and I was fine. I could get up and do a 17 hour day the next day.
Speaker 1:It was fine I feel like you did a tiktok on something about going out one night. Did you do? I don't know, but something about a job or something I can't remember, like, oh, I'm sure I'm sure yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I put it this way in my career I've never let fun get in the way, let work get in the way of a good time. I back in the day, I could party all night and come to work and be fine. Now it's a different story yeah, I, I totally tell. I have two glasses of wine and I'm like, oh my God, I can't get out of bed the next day. Yeah, I've got wine flu yeah, everything hurts.
Speaker 1:Did they organise your travel or did you have to do that? So we organised our flights so I could get my points, but then they reimbursed us. Amazing, yeah, so they paid for it. So it was great it was really really great. And you would have trouble. Did you have to take your kit, or did they have?
Speaker 2:you had to take your kit. You take your kit and you get really good at condensing your kit to what you actually need. And because we were working with these talent, you know on the reg, you work with them four times a year. You, these talent, you know on the reg, you work with them four times a year. You start to know which foundation colour people are, which you know what eyeshadows you need, what brushes.
Speaker 2:You don't need to take what tools. You know. You're not going to take a full set of rollers or anything with you, it's just quickly a GHD and a blow dryer, that's all. And then sometimes between Sarah and I would be like, well, let's just take one of this because we don't need to, just to, so that we don't weigh ourselves down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, true, yeah, you get really good at it.
Speaker 2:You know, the first time you do it, you pack, you know the kitchen much, yeah, and then yeah, over time I just got really good at condensing my kit, so much so that now I'm a little bit too much that way and I get to a job and I'm like, oh my God, where's half my stuff? Yeah, I've done that. The fear, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it was the same talent for those four times a year. Yeah, okay, okay. Well, that would have made it, you know, a bit easier.
Speaker 2:Really easy. You get to know them, as you know like you get to know your regular people what they like, the nuances of how to do their hair and makeup how to do it quickly how to behave while they're around, who you can have a laugh with, who you need to just be quiet and let them read over their notes.
Speaker 1:You know all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:You learn it pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:And was it just you and Sarah, or did they bring in some local we?
Speaker 2:actually had another girl, fiona, and she was Irish. So she, yeah, she started out as a runner but she had done a make-up course and, yeah, we got on really well with her. And one morning at the Australian Open, when I had just started, they just said listen, it is absolutely chockers. This morning, how would you feel about Fiona coming in and working with you girls?
Speaker 1:and you can just guide her, and we'll like bring it on another set of hands.
Speaker 2:That would be great. She came in and she just did a cracking job and, um, she ended up being the third maker butter. So it was sarah, myself and fiona and we did all of those grand slams together yeah, for 10 years.
Speaker 1:That sounds yeah, it was amazing do you think it'll ever happen again?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, well we are working with them this aust Australian Open. They're coming back yeah, so that'll be in January and Sarah and I were sort of like let's do a really good job and hopefully they want to take us to Wembley.
Speaker 1:We'll see what happens. Hey, yeah, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:I've got a child now, so everything's a little bit harder, yeah, but I think for that gig, especially because the money is so good as well, I would make it work. Make it work Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And with when you did the wedding for the Dancing with the Stars lady, what was her name, or what is her name? Kim Johnson, kim Johnson, did you? I suppose you wouldn't have had to have done a trial or anything, would you?
Speaker 2:No, because she would have just known your style and Yep, she just sent me a photo of what you like and she's cool and just very open and she's a dancer as well. Dancers know pretty quickly what they like, what they don't like. We did it. She was like great, can we do a little tweak here? She was so easy, so so good. And then halfway through the night she'd been dancing and sweating. So we went up to the hotel room and just chucked it in a pony and went back down to party.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah what I find is quite often, if I'm doing the makeup for a wedding, I will and I'm my guest at the wedding I will always bring my standby kit with me and just before the girls, like, walk down the aisle, I'll just do a touch up on everyone. And just before they do their photos, I'll try and do a touch-up on them, just so that they, you know they look good, they look good. Did you have to do anyone else? Or just her? Just her? The bridesmaids were getting done by someone else. Oh, amazing, yeah, we were in our own room. It was amazing. Yeah, that's a dancer. The dance hall was just heaving all night. Just one of those olivia newton, john singing. I'm like me and my bogan boyfriend what are we doing?
Speaker 2:what are we doing here? They would have walked you. Yeah well, I don't know.
Speaker 1:We continued partying with some randoms in a match until 7 in the morning. Yeah, sounds fab.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1:Sounds fab. Did you ever go? Did you ever do any drama? No, Like drama TV. No.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because of my dad's career as a TV director and he does TV and film and he's very well known in the industry. He does comedy and he does drama film and he's very well known in the industry. He does comedy and he does drama and I have never worked with my dad never, oh what? Never worked with him. He got me a foot in the door but I never worked with him and that's not anything. It wouldn't be weird if we worked together at all. But I just realised pretty early on I had no interest in doing drama or film, because I don't want to read a script and break it down.
Speaker 2:I really am continuity, like some people are great at that, but I like to do my makeup job and at the end of the day, that is it. They wash it off. I never need to think about it again. They never need to think about it again if you're on drama or film and, like I said, some people are just great at this sort of stuff you then need to go home and go over the scripts and work out what you're doing for the next day and how the continuity is going to match up, and all of that just for me. That wasn't my interest. Also, with that sort of work often, often you're not making people look pretty. You might be doing your brooms or you might, you know, dressing them down. That that was not my thing, I think.
Speaker 2:Basically, I went into makeup to make people look hot. That was what I wanted to do, um, and I think, if you can kind of some people can, you know, work across the board and that's great. But for me I was sort of picked. The thing that I wanted to do. I wanted to make people pretty, um, and that's sort of what I've worked at and it's worked for me as a career. Like I said, I've never had an agent. I've worked, word of mouth, my entire career, for 20 years, and I've been employed.
Speaker 2:So, I must have done something right. I think Absolutely, although I still feel like a fraud, like the commercial I'm doing tomorrow. I got a call from, I think, whoever's organising it. He said you've come highly recommended and we really want to work with you. And straight away the imposter syndrome came in and I was like, oh my god, tomorrow is going to be the day that they find that everyone's I'm actually shit. Oh my gosh, kath, oh, I think we all do it. Though when they're like you've come highly recommended, I'm like, no, I'm shit, don't worry. Like don't, don't, don't, don't.
Speaker 1:Listen to this, are you worried that you're going to let them down. You're worried you're not going to meet their expectations. Yeah, is that? Oh, yeah, so you know you can do hair and makeup. Pardon, because you know you can do hair and makeup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I do know that in my soul. But then there is this little voice that's like today's gonna be the day it's all gonna unravel. 20 years is all gonna unravel and they're gonna find out and you're gonna be exposed but yeah okay.
Speaker 2:I feel like everyone has that at some point, and I especially feel it if I'm doing an unknown job, like when I did those beautiful couture dresses the other day. It's not really my field and I just was like. I just felt like that little bit of adrenaline, like I'm a bit nervous, but don't let them know, let's just do you. And it was fine, it was absolutely fine. No one even questioned it. Everyone said she was fine, it was fine, it was all fine. Yeah, I think a fear as well is that if you're a makeup artist if anyone's like up-and-coming makeup artist you have to work within a timeframe.
Speaker 2:You don't get endless hours to do the hair and makeup you have to work within a timeframe and you also have to be on time. If you're a makeup artist, you need to be on time, if not early, to a job. And if you're a late person, this just isn't the career for you it. And if you're a late person, this just isn't the career for you, but it just isn't.
Speaker 2:It's not no, but yeah. So I just feel like, if I can do everything in my power to make sure that you know everything runs on time, I think my fear is that there will be ten people waiting for me for the production to start because I'm fucking around with hair and make-up, because I don't know what I'm doing. That's my fear, and I actually have dreams about that all the time, where I rock up to a job and I don't have my brushes and I can't get my shit together and then there's a producer in my ear saying are they ready? Like this is an actual recurring dream for me. So I think, yeah, I think that all of that sort of can build up in your head and then you're just like I'm a phony and they're all going to find out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think the time anxiety is definitely a real thing about being late. Like I get stressed when I'm late for my early, like I'm like I'm running late for the time I have to be there, which is early, yeah, and I start freaking out.
Speaker 2:For the five minutes early yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I'm like, but why are you freaked out? Because you're actually just running like fear early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am a hundred percent, and I think you did a reel, which I just found, yes, of driving to a job. And you're halfway there, you're on a freeway and you're like did I bring my kit, even though you know you packed your kit, even though you know that I have pulled over on freeways to check my boot to see if my kit's in there. It's just severe. I think we all live with it, though.
Speaker 1:I think I don't know if it was you or someone else, but they messaged me and said I've pulled over three times once in the one drive 100%.
Speaker 2:I was like oh, I love you. Yeah, my kit's there, but what about my standby kit? What about my brushes? Did I bring my brushes? My friend told me that she forgot her brushes to a wedding once and lied to them and said she's been trying this new technique with your hands and she did all of their makeup with her hands.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh and she cut away with it. Oh my gosh, I have forgotten my brushes before. Actually, that's the worst.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is the worst, it is the worst.
Speaker 1:I can definitely empathise with the anxiety and I actually worked out yesterday what my issue is. I think that I want them to like me and I'm really worried that when I walk away that they're not going to like me and ask me back. And then I overthink everything I said to them on set or how I said goodbye to them and just think, just think and yeah, did they think I was lazy because I sat down, but I only sat down because it was actually my break time.
Speaker 2:All of those things have gone through my head, especially if you do a job and then you don't get asked back to do it. They ask someone else back. You're like they hate me and it's because of x, y and z and blah, blah, blah. But what I've learned over the this many years of doing it is there are so many factors why you might not get asked back for a job and it could just simply be that you know the person prefers. I'm quite like loud, I try and like calm it down, but I'm quite chatty. The person might it might not be the way that I apply makeup, but it might be that they just want someone that is silent in the makeup room. It could just be something like that. Or you know they've worked with that other person for years.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but over the years I've learnt that you don't own any talent and they don't own you because I have felt that there's been a few times where I've felt like I'm cheating on a talent if I go and make up someone else and I don't want to feel like anyone owns me but by the same token I don't own anyone else. And an example of that is I was making up someone pretty prominent very regularly and then I was going on maternity leave and so I trained up someone to make this person up and when I got back from maternity leave, this talent actually preferred the one that I'd trained up, and maybe 10 years ago I would have been like oh, she's stolen my work, whatever. By that stage I'm like swings and roundabouts. She actually does do a really good job. In fact she does do a better job than me.
Speaker 2:In fact, can I watch you do her so I can learn? And you just got to let go of your ego. And once you do that and you just realize like you're always going to get work, it's always going to come back to you. If you go in there with a good attitude, as long as you can apply hair you know do hair and makeup, I think if you can show up on time and you know be nice and personable and whatever on set. You're always going to get work, I think anyway.
Speaker 1:But that's, yeah, absolutely it's gone for me, I know what you mean. Like you don't, no one owns you. When you don't own anybody, you can fall into traps where your mind or your head takes over if you're not on something that you maybe thought you should have been. But, um, I love that you said that. Can I watch you do the makeup, because I can learn from you. That's a great. That's a great way to yeah, let your ego go.
Speaker 2:and you know what I did learn and she actually did do a cracking job and great, like who cares, who cares at the end of the day, and I learned something as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like I said 10 years ago, I would have spiralled about that, I would have had a full meltdown about it. But now I just, I simply do not care. And I remember the head of Channel 9 one time her name was Narelle. She just said to me Kath, I don't know why you always freak out about work, because you will always be employed. And that stuck with me because I was like, not like. I used to look at the diary and go, oh, this is a quiet week. Oh, my God, everyone hates me. They've found out, everyone's found out. There's a group chat, everyone's talking about me. She's a shit hair. And as we all hate her. But then over time, after she said that to me, I was like you're right, if something falls off or a show finishes up or a talent prefers someone else, now something always comes up.
Speaker 2:And it has for 20 years now, so I'm starting to believe it's true. I'm starting to believe I'm legit.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just opening up for the next big thing, the next unicorn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and something always happens. I just it. It has been non-stop for 20 years, so something always comes up. If you, if you come and do the job correctly and are a nice person and treat everyone the same yeah, that is also my advice to someone that's up and coming. There isn't a hierarchy. The production, whatever the show or whatever it is that you're working on, every single one of you is employed to get that production happening. Whether you're getting the coffees, or you're directing it, or you're the model, or you're the one sewing buttons on it doesn't matter. We need every single one of those people and no one is better than anyone else. And also, you don't know, that runner that got you your coffee three years might be your director. So just be kind to everyone. Learn everyone's name if you can, and just make it.
Speaker 2:You've got a choice. We can make this a fun experience or a shit experience.
Speaker 1:And I think as a makeup artist.
Speaker 2:You are the first point of contact of the day. You are the first person that the talent sees. You are the first point of contact of the day. You were the first person that the talent sees. You were the first one to get there.
Speaker 2:So you actually have an opportunity to create a vibe. You can start the vibe off. Like you will have talent running late. They might be in a bad mood, they might be going through a divorce, you don't know. So you actually get the opportunity while they're in your chair for you know, a good hour or so longer to create a mood where you might lift that talent up or just give them the space that they need to just process, or maybe they just need to have a good old laugh. But you are the first point of contact. So you set the tone for the day and if you get the talent up, it's going to get everyone else up and we're going to, you know, have a smooth production, whatever. Whatever it is and this applies to brides, or a tv show or a game show or anything- yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was working on neighbors and one of the talent I mean, when you're working on a tv show you're getting them into character and one of the talents, like the talent. She was a very experienced actress too and, um, like her hair wasn't done to how it was normally done. Someone had, someone knew, had done it and you know, maybe I just didn't know how to do it and I really realized how it threw her, her confidence, how it threw her to be able to then go on and perform. Yeah. So I really sometimes think we don't, not that we don't get enough credit, but there is such hair and makeup is just is more than hair and makeup. It's I think it's just 20% of it, you know like it's the personality there's, so therapy, there's just yeah.
Speaker 2:And you've got to understand as well. Like, just say you're working on a show like the Project and you have guests coming on that don't usually go on television. You know it might be new. They're talking about some new scientific thing that they've discovered. They're not TV people. There might be a male as well. Who's never seen make-up in their life?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:They're coming into this room with these lights and this makeup and there's chatting and TV's going and stuff. You're, as a makeup artist, I think you are responsible to put them at ease and like, if I'm working on a man, like do it like a politician or something, you just you know. Hi, I know this must feel foreign for you. I'm just doing a bit of makeup. It's literally just to take the shine off. It's nothing crazy. If you don't feel comfortable with something, we can always take it off. But I'm just this is my recommendation, because you're going under these lights, there's nothing to worry about. I can help you take it off at the end of the day as well. And automatically, you've just made them feel calm, that they're safe. You, automatically, you've just made them feel calm that they're safe, you know, and I think, yeah, that is such a huge part of the job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is the psychology of it and learning. Like I said earlier that I learned in the photography studio learning to adapt your personality to suit the person in your chair.
Speaker 2:There's some people that are going to be swearing and having a laugh and having a drink. You know that you can swear and have a laugh, but there might be someone that's fully in their head, so nervous going over their notes. That's when you know to zip it and just to share. Maybe have, you know, say a couple of pleasantries at the start and then just leave it and do your thing. Yeah, and you, just, you just learn that over time, for sure, for sure can we talk about kath carl and tiktok sensation?
Speaker 1:um, how did how did this? Because you're killing it on tiktok, yeah, um, you're hilarious, you're wonderful.
Speaker 2:Tell me, talk to me so I guess it's I I'd say it's like a low-key midlife crisis. I'm about to turn 40, 40 in february, so I think when I was about a couple of years ago. I started sort of being like who am I? You know, you start asking those big questions, I think when you get to your mid to late 30s, like is this all? There is da-da-da-da-da. And you know, I journal a lot. I meditate 45 minutes every single day.
Speaker 2:And I was like who am who am I like what lights me up? Now I do. I love hair and makeup. Yeah, but I've been doing it for you know 20 years and I'm like what lights me up? When am I lit up? And I'm like when I'm making people laugh, I really lights me up. And then, you know, I read about like what you know comedy and stuff and they're like just talk about you know, I read about like what you know comedy and stuff and they're like just talk about what you know. And I'm like, well, I know makeup, obviously. So that's been my thing. I've had all these ideas swirling around in my head and I always constantly do, and I was like you know what I want to start like doing funny stuff online, like about makeup. I started off just doing about makeup, now I do it about all different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, line, like about makeup. I started off just doing about makeup, now I do it about all different things. Yeah, but I had like so much fear, so much shame, so much. Whatever, I did like I couldn't do it anyway, I filmed a car and I thought, yeah, they're good, but I couldn't post them because I was so embarrassed. And then I was like you know what I'll? I'll do it on TikTok, where I don't know anyone. Nobody knows me so.
Speaker 2:Instagram. You know, I don't want my friends and family and people that I've worked with going like she's actually lost her mind, like she's lost her mind. So I was like, all right, I'll start doing them on TikTok. And like I'd do them, I'd post and then I'd shame spiral for days, wouldn't be able to look at it. Yeah, and I did one like a fake tanning, like I only fake tan the bits that are on display Anyway, and I'm in my bra and undies for it. And I posted that and I can't tell you I had like three sleepless nights after that going what on earth are you doing in your underwear on TikTok? Yeah, well, I couldn't look at it. I couldn't look at it. I was like you know what? I'm going to get on there and delete it, right, because you are just so embarrassing. So I go on to delete it and it's gone viral. It's gone absolutely viral. And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, what do I do with this?
Speaker 2:And then I started doing a few more. Some were received. Well, some, you know TikTok sort of up and down, yeah, started like people started following me, people I knew started following me. I was like, oh dear God, no, I was coming on here to be incognito, anyway. Then I did one about they're like parodies. I did one about a bridesmaid there's always one bridesmaid that does her own makeup and they're so annoying because then they come and try and use your style and then they want to come and get you to put lashes on them, and then they pretty much see the other girls and they want you to fix them, but they don't want to pay for it, and so I did a reel about that and I posted it and it went viral like within minutes, within absolute minutes, and it got like five and a half million views. And so then I thought you know what? I'll start posting this on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I think I'm confident enough for people I know to start seeing this, and then from there it's just sort of proliferated and if you look on my Instagram and TikTok, it is authentically me, like this is coming from an authentic place. I get the ideas for them usually either when I'm meditating or in the shower, or when I'm just about to fall asleep, which is very annoying. I'll get an idea for something and I'm like, oh, that's funny, and then I'll start writing it on my notes and then suddenly it's 3am and I'm online looking for a Von Dutch hat going. What am I doing with my life? But yeah, I get a lot of joy from them and I think they're being received really well. Yeah, they're amazing.
Speaker 2:I was making up a talent and she would. She requested me for this big campaign recently and they were like no, we want to use our people. And she requested me for this big campaign recently and they were like no, we want to use our people. And she said, no, I want to use Kath. And they're like okay, well, can you give us her Instagram handle? And we'll have a look. And she's like, okay. Okay, so if you go onto my Instagram, you're probably not going to be like, wow, what an amazing makeup artist. But yeah, it is for a laugh and I'm having fun doing it. So I don't know where it's going, but I would say that this is my midlife crisis at the moment, but I am channeling it into comedy rather than drugs and alcohol, so I guess it's a possibility.
Speaker 1:Definitely. How long do you take to do each video? Does it take you long to create it?
Speaker 2:I need half a day, I probably yeah, half day, probably, like four or five hours so the writing of it is my the funnest part for me, um, because I start getting ideas and I'll ask people and I'll be like, oh, that's a good idea, or someone will do something, and I'm like I'm gonna write that something happened at work yesterday which I'm gonna do a reel about tomorrow. Yeah, about the producer coming in and calling a meeting in the make-up room while you're trying to do make-up, and how impossible it is to do make-up after that.
Speaker 2:So I had quite an annoying experience in the make-up room but I was like I've got to do it. There's a reel in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I um, I write it down, I think, what music's going to go to it? What should I wear for it? That bit is really fun. And then the filming is fun. Ish, I still get self-conscious in front of the camera, but like I get over it because it's just me. And then the editing is painful. The editing. As you know, the editing is the most painful thing, do you?
Speaker 1:use a tripod like do you film yourself or do you?
Speaker 2:get. Yeah, I'm on a tripod right now with lighting, yeah, oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So, and you've got your remote control stop and start, or you just, I just, or you just press that stop and start um, yeah, I've got lighting.
Speaker 2:I've worked out of places in my house that have the best lighting. If I'm playing a character that's younger, I'll put a filter on okay, but I, I don't tend, I think, filtered photos look, or filtered, it looks filtered, you know, and it's fine if I'm going to be, you know, 20 years younger, that's fine. But yeah, I don't generally filter, but I do use lighting, so I've got a ring light and then one of those little softy ones that clip to your phone, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so two favourites that spring to mind for me one makeup related, where you've got Sarah Klein in it as well. The makeup artist, first hair person. Oh, my God yeah, and it's just. I think both your performances are amazing. I think there should be like a TikTok.
Speaker 2:Or Logie move over Golden Globe or Logie, yeah, I just.
Speaker 1:The sass sarah is giving is incredible. I think I can't really remember exactly all the things that happened, but I was just like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Speaker 2:I think there was something like with a red lip liner yeah, when they tell you and then at the end where you've got if you're doing hair and you've got the fringe perfection. That's right and the bloody makeup artist puts their hand on the fringe. That was the best.
Speaker 1:The ultimate, the ultimate, yeah, the ultimate. I loved that. I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And then my other favourite one that I love, I think, is the Contiki tour. Yeah, yeah, I can't remember all of the yeah. Yeah, like 16 countries in 16 days or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't remember, but but yeah it was, yeah, I was caught up for that because I said it said in the early 2000s, but I also mentioned facebook and everyone's like facebook wasn't around. Then I'm like okay, let's loosely. Yeah, in 2002 to 2007 they're like it's not accurate and I'm like I'll tell you what's not accurate. It's that.
Speaker 1:I've never actually been on.
Speaker 2:Contiki to us. I mean it's just for laughs, like let's just calm down, it's just for laughs.
Speaker 1:I can't believe they actually messaged that. Did they actually put that in the comments?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh really, you know, what I've learned is that Jackie Felgate said this to me don't take criticism of anyone that you wouldn't take advice from, and I think that that's, yeah, fair. And if you don't put your art out there like that, you are going to cop shit, especially on TikTok, especially, um. And when you first read negative comments, you're like I'm only doing this, but I'm not trying to hurt anyone. And then you're like who cares? Who cares? Doing this for fun, I'm not trying to hurt anyone, da-da-da. And then you're like who cares? Who cares? See, you never See you never, who cares?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, actually you did do another TikTok, I think. Well, you did do it. It was based on tips or something things never to do as a makeup artist. And there was one really good tip and it was like about judging another makeup artist's makeup and you said because you never know how long they've had to do it, or something like that, and I thought that was just so good.
Speaker 2:I think that that's a really important thing because we're all in the same boat, we're all hustling for work and we're all trying. And you might look at someone's work and it might not necessarily be you know what you would have done or it might not look great, but I've certainly put people to air not looking great because there might be factors like they've run super late, they're going through something and they cried the whole time. We did make-up. You know the lighting's bad, you know there's heaps of wind and we're doing it outside and we had no time. Like there are so many constraints in the lead-up to putting that person in front of the camera that you don't know what's happened. They could be covered in sunburn, they could have had laser, you don't know.
Speaker 2:So I think, it's important as fellow makeup artists that we don't ever shit-talk each other's work.
Speaker 2:Whatever you like in your mind but don't verbalise it because you wouldn't want someone doing that to you and you feel like you had to explain that yeah, they just had laser and then she was divorcing her husband, so she was crying the whole time, we had to keep reapplying and then you know, you just, I just think we're all in the same boat. We're all just trying to make a buck and enjoy ourselves. So let's just give everyone a little bit of leeway.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, for sure I do have one more question about the TikTok. Do you think it's like? By doing it, has it given you anything, whether it's work-wise, life-wise, zero dollars?
Speaker 2:Zero dollars, Although someone just posted something about my brows and I have had a couple of tattoo artists contact me and say I can fix you, I can help you, but no, in fact I haven't got any makeup work from it. In fact, I think people are like don't know quite how to take me now. They're like is she a funny person or is she a makeup artist? But luckily for me, I think, because I've been doing this for so long, I don't need social media to keep me employed. But the way that I make money is not from social media. I have made $0 from social media. The way I make money is a freelancer and makeup artist.
Speaker 1:At the moment.
Speaker 2:if someone wants to pay me to do early 2000s reels, I'm happy for it, Like I'm all about it. I do think there's some sponsorship deals in your future.
Speaker 1:Well, if we can work out a way to monetize it, I am so down I really think there is, and I really think also your reels are weeding out people that you don't want to do makeup on anyway. That's that's why I see it like personality wise you know people that aren't aligned with with who you are. Yes, yeah, I think they're great, I say keep them coming, keep them coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the influencer who wants you, who expects so much from you.
Speaker 1:Oh, that one was amazing. Actually I forgot that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they expect so much from you to do a million different looks, to travel to all these different locations and then not pay you but pay you with a tag. I'm like no, no, I've been doing this for 20 years. I do not work with a tag. No, I don't work with a tag.
Speaker 1:Can we just talk about that for a second? I actually read a post yesterday on Instagram and it was a paid post. I'm just going to bring it up and read it. There's a line in it, and so it says. The line in it, which for me is like a red flag, is this is a fantastic opportunity to get your work seen and be part of the buzz. I think the minute someone's saying that this is a fantastic opportunity, there is.
Speaker 2:Yeah bye forever. Um, that you know what if you are a student and you are starting out? Yeah, it really is, and that's how we all started out. I, like I said, I was out at southland doing fashion parades for supra for free while I was at school. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a great way, and if you're starting out it really to collab with someone that's also starting out. It is a great way, and if you're starting out it, really to collab with someone that's also starting out. That is a great way to get your work out. But when you're doing it for 20 years, see you never. I am not interested, unless you are my friend and it's your charity or something like that. You know, like Carrie's Beatties for Brain Cancer, something like that.
Speaker 2:Of course you're going to do that for free.
Speaker 1:But just because it's a good opportunity with an influencer, no, I'm not interested. I just don't know if they are good opportunities. Exposure I don't know. I just don't. I don't know anyone who's gotten anywhere from exposure from a tag yeah, yeah, from a tag. And honestly, if you're listening and you have, please, please message me and let me know, because I'd love to hear about it actually, and you you know what it could be like.
Speaker 2:The next generation of makeup artists because we are already established. That doesn't apply, like, I'm sure, in the younger, you know, the up and coming generation, that that would work and also it gives you photos to therefore put on your social media, which is what people look at Like. Back in the day, no one looked at you because we didn't have it. You had a folio, which I never ever got got one together. I just worked through word of mouth. I don't know, how so? I'm a fraud.
Speaker 1:I'm a fraud, you're not a fraud. Let's talk about some of um this fraudulent makeup. Artist's favorite kit favorites kit favorites what are you?
Speaker 2:what are you loving right now? What am I loving? Well, I just purchased you know, I'm always late to the party with this sort of stuff. I'm not a cool makeup artist. I can make you look cool, but I'm not cool. I'm loving that, mario, just the neutrals palette by Mario.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't have that yeah cool.
Speaker 2:It's a crowd pleaser. I mean I probably have all the colours, but you know, the less stuff that you can bring with you the better. So it's just a really you know with people that I work on usually that's the matte one. That's sort of. You know, I can pretty much work straight out of that um and you know what? I'm so old school but I love a dirty old concealer wheel from Kryolan oh, they're the best.
Speaker 2:I bring it everywhere I just there is never a makeup that I do, that I don't use it for something. Do you know I learnt?
Speaker 1:about that concealer wheel at Channel 7?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like where have you been all my life? Where?
Speaker 2:have you been the Kryolan corrector? Yeah, it's amazing, it really is. So I've got that in all of my kits and I think if you plan well, if you're a makeup artist, I think people need to understand is so much of your work is standby. You work hard at the start of the day and then for the rest of the day, whatever the job is that you're on, except for a wedding, you just go home. Yeah, you're standby.
Speaker 2:So, my advice to anyone with your kit a standby kit fully set up, you don't scramble for hairspray and combs and whatever that you're using. You have everything set up as though you could make up someone. You could do a mini make-up out of that kit, so it's ready to go. So I always have a concealer wheel in my standby kit and a concealer wheel in my proper kit.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. What about foundation? Where are you at with that? What's your go-to?
Speaker 2:I go through so many stages. At the moment I'm on Amani Luminous, okay, yeah, I really like that. But then, to be honest, on my own face, I like something thicker. I like the NARS the all-day, whatever the all-day NARS one is.
Speaker 1:Okay, is it that in the square bottle? Yeah, radiance or something.
Speaker 2:The rectangle bottle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is nice.
Speaker 2:Yes, well it is. However, I do find those colours quite yellow and they don't suit everyone's skin tone. So to buy the whole range to put in my kit, I think is a risk, whereas the Armani I'm just at the moment I'm comfortable with the Armani, I know it off my heart, so I feel like I can just get into a job and slap that on and there is another brand that I like and I can't remember if it's Too Faced or Tarte um but it's like Face Tape or something like that Tarte yeah, tarte, yeah, a couple of those and um, I also really like that.
Speaker 1:The foundation, the foundation oh yeah, cool, cool, do you decant, do you?
Speaker 2:no, no, I honestly I need to pay someone to just sort my kit out, just sort it out. You should see the boot of my car. It is just. There is just so much stuff. No, I really need to decant. I need, I need yes, I need to just do a complete overhaul. You don't realize over the years how much stuff you accumulate, and that would be my advice to anyone else as well, like if you're starting out, don't buy thousands of palettes.
Speaker 1:Oh, don't, don't.
Speaker 2:It just weighs your kit down. Just have foundations to suit every skin tone and concealers to suit every skin tone, and then just a couple of palettes max max, yeah, moving states will make you get rid of a lot of stuff I'm moving house at the moment and I just cannot, are you? I cannot believe the amount just of crap that I can accumulate, that I've got a three-year-old. How much crap she has. I'm like how did this happen? Who am I?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about concealer? What's your go-to, though?
Speaker 2:Obviously I like my little old concealer wheel, but I also use the NARS concealer pot. Oh yeah, they're great. Yeah, I often use ginger and custard, and then I also like to go over the top with their what is it? Their liquid concealers. You know, in the oh as in the nas ones, the cream, yeah yeah, yep, so I'm. I'm having a bit of a nas moment concealer wise and a mani moment uh, foundation wise you know you mentioned in one of your kits, did you?
Speaker 1:do you have more than one kit, or are you talking standby kit and then another kit?
Speaker 2:So I've got a standby kit that just sits there all the time and it's just got everything, even Band-Aid yeah, just everything that you could need. Just say, you're out in the middle of a field, the make-up room is nowhere near you, you've all travelled out to the field to, you know, do the shoot. You have everything in there that if there's a disaster, you can sort it out and it doesn't have to be a big kit.
Speaker 2:I also have a men's kit. So like just say, I'm going out to the racetrack or to football or something, but it's only men as the talent. I'm not going to bring all my gear with me. So I've just got a men's kit which has got an array of powders that are going to suit every skin tone a light foundation, a dark foundation. Most men don't even want foundation Anti-shine.
Speaker 2:I love the Benefit Porefessional anti-shine I use that a lot actually for a lot of people, because a lot of the work that I do needs to stay all day. Like I make a gel game, often twice a week at six in the morning and often like whatever she's doing isn't until that night, so it needs to last. So I like to spray that all-nighter stuff on her face, then put the Porefessional over the top, which is just a mattifier, and then I do the makeup, as I usually would.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Do you use a?
Speaker 1:moisturiser first or just the Porefessional. Well, she usually does her moisturiser first. Oh, moisturizer first, or just the pork? Well, she usually does it in moisturizer first.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, so the all nighter as in the urban decay one, yeah okay, so you spray that, and then you put the, put the, let it settle, okay, yeah. And then I mean I saw that on tiktok, who knows, I actually don't even know with those oh yeah, I'm not saying I'm like did I pay $40 for a bottle of bullshit? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is it a placebo? I?
Speaker 2:have to try it on my own face and actually see if there's a difference.
Speaker 1:People do say they work yeah, yeah people do their word for it.
Speaker 2:I can't yeah, I can't confirm nor deny, and what foundation? Would you use on? Jackie amani I know I use the. What was it? The tart? I mix two colors together and because I make her up so regularly I just go in there and I just know straight away what to get out, what not to get out. Okay, we just smash it out, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And Jackie loves a good beat, doesn't she? Her makeup always looks fabulous.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Yeah, she knows what she wants. I know what she wants. We work together. If she doesn't like something again like anyone else, just let me know. We change it. It's not a big deal.
Speaker 1:But she doesn't mind a bit of colour on the eyes, does she?
Speaker 2:when I like more, like because she's got green or blue eyes, hasn't she? Yeah, I mean most of the things we do nowadays. We've both decided, like, as we're getting older, like less is sort of more, like we're about the gold shimmer. I used to like dip myself in gold shimmer. I'm moving further away from that. I can't actually even do a tick on my eyes anymore because they've just changed Kits earlier.
Speaker 1:Do you have two separate kits or do you have is a standby your second kit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have. Yeah, my standby is my second kit and has absolutely everything in it. It's just a small little bag but it has everything in it that you could do a basic make-up and hair with, obviously, the hair tools.
Speaker 2:So you've got like an array of different colored powders, primer a little small palette hairbrush, hair comb, spray, all all the things band-aids, hair pins, tissue, sunscreen, all of that, so, and a whole range of different lipsticks that I already have in my kit as well. So when the person's ready and they go get dressed instead of scrambling because you're going to go out on set and this could be some random field miles away from the hair and makeup area so you can't quickly run back and get anything.
Speaker 2:So I need to have everything ready to go in that standby kit. So as soon as I go to get changed, I get my standby kit ready and then you can just go straight out there, rather than trying to borrow from your kit and put stuff back and then you get confused. It is better to just keep those two separate, just like your kit as well. Yeah, never, never, cross them over, because you will always forget to put things back and then you'll be, you'll be left. Then I also have, if I'm doing a job like for you know, let's say the football or the racing, where I'm just making up a bunch of men and there's no one there and I've Googled them all and none of them even have hair.
Speaker 2:So I don't need any hair tools with me. Then I just bring a men's kit and again it's very similar to a standby kit where it's just you know. It's very similar to a standby kit where it's just you know, something small, so you don't have to be lugging all of your stuff. And I think you learn the hard way, don't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:Like they're not bringing enough or bringing too much, and then you start to work out what does the job require. You know, sometimes I'm like I know I'm only making up men, but let's just have a hairdryer just in case. And you sort of start to learn what you need to bring and what you don't need to bring and then just make sure everything's in your car, just in case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, space in the car is always good. Have you ever forgotten anything? Have you had any?
Speaker 2:Yeah, tons of times, especially when I lived at home and I was a makeup artist. I've got three younger sisters, so that would be. I'd rock up to a shoot and I wouldn't have any eyeshadow because it was all smashed up in my sister's drawer somewhere all the time. No bronzer, because it's all over my, my sister and all her friends yeah, oh my gosh it was life-changing.
Speaker 2:When I moved out of home in with my partner, who's a male and isn't interested in hair and makeup, I could not believe how long things actually lasted and everything remained in my kit. So, yeah, plenty of times. Oh my gosh, and I think that that's why that's one of my recurring dreams that I'm going to rock up and I'm not going to have stuff with me, because it's actually happened and you just have to wing it, don't you?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, and it's because your sisters have stolen. It Was there hole.
Speaker 2:In it was there lots of fights pardon, was there lots of fights?
Speaker 2:lots of fights, heaps of fights now that we don't live together. So my parents had four kids in less than four years, all girls. So we're all like a very similar age. So we'd be stealing clothes from each other, stealing makeup, stealing fake tan fake tan was a huge thing, the hair straightener like. There was so many fights and then when we moved out of home, we don't fight at all anymore and I'm like it's because no one's stealing anyone's shit anymore. Yeah, no one's stealing your makeup. Yeah, a friend of mine though she not once but twice used borrowed the hair dryer from her kit for herself, of course, yeah, um, she borrowed the hair dryer from her kit to use on herself and forgot it. Forgot to put it back in her kit and not once but twice rocked up to a job without a hairdryer. Yeah, is career suicide. Basically, you can't rock up without a hairdryer.
Speaker 1:You're nobody. Yeah, I've done that. Actually, luckily, the person who I rocked up to she was a hair and makeup artist. She was in the bridal party.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the feeling, your guts just drop and your heart's like my God, how am I going to do this?
Speaker 1:It is the worst feeling ever. Yeah, I actually keep a spare in my boot now because I also was doing. I was mid-blow wave at a hotel and my hairdryer just stopped. Oh no, anyway, the lady whose hair I was doing. She just got up, walked into the bathroom and pulled out a Parlex hairdryer out of the cupboard and I was like this is amazing and that never happens, because usually you'd have to put the hotel hairdryer.
Speaker 2:You might as well just blow air onto it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a Remington or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we learn the hard way. I think that that's important. Everyone learns the hard way, and the same with like location shoots. You learn the hard way. Google Maps, as a makeup artist, is your best friend, and you realise that when you get lost, because back in the day, when we all started out, we didn't have Google Maps, no, we had to read the map, which I still can't do yeah, get lost and sometimes you know you need to be in the middle of nowhere at four in the morning. You learn the hard way and you never do it again. You always allow heaps of time. You allow time to get lost. You allow time to park your car and drag your shit for however long you have to do. Yeah, all of these things, all these little nuances, you learn the hard way and you never do it again. Yeah, pretty much. Oh well, I've been a repeat offender of a couple of them actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, 20 years, you know that will happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll never forget doing like the grand final at the MCcg, and where I had to park, in relation to where I had to be, was like, yeah, kilometers away, dragging all my gear, and they're like, and I was like, I'll just get there to the mcg, like what was I thinking? There are so many doors, you need like a proper accreditation. Yeah, laps around the mcg with all my gear and crowds of people everywhere. And this is when I was really young and I still wore high heels to work and I was, oh, my god, you, you learn pretty quickly that, yeah, you've got to be comfortable, you've got to be on time and you just got to be prepared with all your gear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure now. Kath, thank you so much for chatting with me today. You You've given lots of you know great advice to up and coming artists any artists really. Have you got anything else that you'd like to add before we, before we head off, I think?
Speaker 2:I think we've actually covered it all, haven't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've really covered a lot.
Speaker 2:I honestly think, like if this is your career or you're thinking about moving into this career. It can be intimidating, but just always remember to ask questions. People get too scared and too self-conscious to sort of do that, but I am more than happy. If someone wants to hit me up on Instagram or just to have a chat, I am more than happy to give advice on what to do, and I think that you'll find that this industry a lot of people ask me, is this industry bitchy? I've found the complete opposite. Obviously, you have some run-ins over the years, but I've found the complete opposite that it is really like a friendly, loving industry where we all just bring each other up and so yeah don't be intimidated, because it can be intimidating.
Speaker 2:But once you get in there, just remember do the shitty jobs with a good grace, and you won't be doing them for very long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great advice. Thanks, kath. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.