The Makeup Insider
The Makeup Insider is a fortnightly one-on-one podcast exploring the life and career of makeup artists, hosted by freelance mua Vanessa Barney.. Finding your community of other likeminded mua’s – the creative, artistic, talkative, flexible, adaptable with a good eye for colour kind-of-people, can often be daunting. Like, where do you start? The Makeup Insider is designed for just that. To build a collaborative online community of artists to build their confidence, connections and help drive their career to the next level.If you’re just starting out or have been in the industry for a long time, tune in now, check out the key takeaways in the show notes and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Find Vanessa @vanessabarney @the.makeupinsider
The Makeup Insider
From Young Hairdressing Prodigy to Global Makeup Icon: Rae Morris on Innovation, Collaboration, and Resilience
Ever wondered what it's like to transition from an 11-year-old hairdressing prodigy to a celebrated makeup artist? Join us as we chat with Rae Morris, whose journey from owning a salon by 18 to battling carpal tunnel syndrome opened new doors in the world of makeup artistry. From her groundbreaking collaborations with plastic surgeons to her ventures in designing innovative makeup brushes, Rae's story is a testament to resilience and creativity.
Teaching without formal training and learning from drag queens while battling self-doubt—Rae Morris's journey is as thrilling as it is inspiring. We'll delve into her experiences of assisting in the industry, the psychological aspects of working with clients, and the invaluable lessons learned from legendary artists like Richard Scharah. Find out why mastering both hair and makeup can be a game-changer and how maintaining humility and collaboration can propel you to new heights in the beauty world.
Globetrotting from the disciplined runways of Paris to the accessible fashion shows in Sydney, Rae gives us an insider look at the global makeup industry. We'll discuss the art of social media branding, the meticulous preparation behind mood boards, and the intricate process of developing makeup brushes with Japanese artisans. Whether you're an aspiring makeup artist or a seasoned pro, this episode is packed with actionable insights and stories that will both educate and inspire.
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Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-round beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals, to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick, and if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy. Today on the Makeup Insider, I'm joined by the fabulous Rae Morris. Thanks for being here, rae.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for being patient with me so I'm joined by the fabulous Rae Morris. Thanks for being here, rae. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being patient with me, so I'm so glad this timing worked out. Oh, me too, I am excited to hear your story and what you're up to now and how you got to where you are. So let's dive, let's. First of all, can you just let the audience know where they can find you on social media, on the web, and what you predominantly spend your days, sort of weeks, doing at the moment work-wise.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm a mum of like six children and all the kids are really different. It's like so today I'm this person, but then I'm going to go to that person. But the first question is it's Ray Morris Makeup, is my Instagram and it's Ray R-A-E and I've just started TikTok because I don't know, it's still a bit overwhelming. I mean, the whole social media thing has been a real big adjustment, but I've accepted it now. And then website it's the easiest thing raymorriscom and no, I'm not the ray morris singer in london. We get each other's emails, so yeah, and then everything kind of. You know you can find instagram, youtube, all that from that, from that one place. But yeah, so and but to answer the other question, what do I spend my day doing?
Speaker 2:I have so many different jobs. That's what I love about this industry. As a makeup artist, you can do so many things, but in a nutshell I'd say 50% is the fashion, editorial, celebrity area. I do have, I reckon, a good 20 to 30%. Now I work a lot in the medical industry. I'm not medically trained, I'm not a doctor, but I train and work with plastic surgeons and cosmetic surgeons, teaching them about beauty so they can use my tips surgically. So that's my favorite, one of my, because I learned so much um, and the rest is designing brushes, and education, because education is my favorite thing. So it's a very mixed bag. And then being a mom, and then, yeah, all that as well wow, that's that.
Speaker 1:I love the medical side of it. It's really interesting. We can talk a lot. We can chat more. Yeah, let's chat more about that one later. But how did you? I know you started as a hairdresser- yeah, I was young, really young.
Speaker 2:I was only 13 and my mom's a bodybuilder, so my mom works in the local gym, so I spent my whole upbringing sitting in a gym and there was a salon and actually that's a lot. I was 11 sorry, I was 11 and I went and what they call a tea and tidy a Saturday morning and I was there for two years and on my 13th birthday my mum sent a happy 13th cake to the salon and the salon owner just died. It was like you've just turned 13. I thought you were so much older. So, yeah, hairdressing is where it started. I started very young. I was finished my apprenticeship. I was finished at 17, fully qualified, so very young.
Speaker 1:Wow 17 and you finished your apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy. I think I was the youngest ever. Ever. It was a three-year apprenticeship then too, like now it's obviously four, and I had my own salon just before I turned 18, which was a stupid idea. But I learned a lot, that's for sure, and was this in Queensland.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was in Cleveland, in Brisbane, yeah, in Brisbane. The dream was to like have a salon. I didn't. To be honest, I hated having a salon, I think, because when you're a creative, I think you've got to have two minds when you run a business. And I was really young and to run staff a lot older than me and I was all about the creativeness and learning and education and having people around me that they just work to go out and party on the weekend was just hard for someone at my age to manage, because I thought everyone was as motivated and as inspired as I was, and it was. Yeah, it was a 90% of, I think, owning a salon at that time. For someone like me, it was just 90% trying to, you know, being emotionally trying to work out how to inspire people. I think I hadn't lived enough of life yet to take that role on, so really it was really difficult. I didn't enjoy it at all. How long?
Speaker 1:did you have?
Speaker 2:the salon I had it from I was 18 and then I had it for a good five or six years. We did let the salon did really well, like I had up to 18 staff. Oh wow, I employed some hairdressers from London. We had to soon hairdressers work for me for a moment. Um, yeah, we had some really amazing people and then eventually, what sort of shifted me, which now I look back and go it was a blessing. I got really severe carpal tunnels in both my wrists from a really young age. Yeah, by the time I my first surgery I was 11, and so the time I was 18 I had both hands operated on so many times and I couldn't hold a hair dryer, brush, scissors just like ripped my wrists apart. So makeup was kind of I used to do the formal girls or do the occasional wedding. I was doing brides without any training and then makeup was just a little bit easier on my hands. So that's kind of the first shift of where makeup kind of came from me. I suppose that's another crazy story.
Speaker 1:Okay, so was this? What? When was this around? Was this early 2000s? Yeah?
Speaker 2:so the kind of the year I was so 18 when I had a salon, and then it was kind of I and because I was really good, I was really good at afro hair as well, I was just really experienced in that area. And then, where the so makeup was happening a little bit in the salons, which is such a great training now that I look back at doing you know, not your 15 year old supermodels, like doing mums and daughters and anyone that came in I would just do makeup on and would do our own little shoots. I had a great hairdresser who's still an amazing hairdresser, carl Nelson, and he pulled out a camera and we did our own hair shoots in the salon. So I was doing makeup with all of us were just learning, and I think back then it was no filters and no lighting and just clients in the salon. So it's such great training.
Speaker 2:And then kind of fate happened when I was asked to accompany a Mauritian model, australian girl, to a pageant in Istanbul and I was there where the Naomi Campbell moment which I always talk about, but it was two seconds of her life she's never remembered, I never would remember. And it was also before the internet, where all I did? All I did is put lip gloss on her, that's it.
Speaker 2:And I was photographed in that moment and then came back to Australia and this you know, ray Morris, international Makeup Artist title, and I just was too scared to tell people the truth that I just went, okay, I'll just, I didn't know. You could say no, you know, kind of thank God, I didn't, but also I did lie. I lied to get in, you know, but kind of worked out, what do you mean? Well, it was okay. So I've talked to a lot of creatives about this and we all have similar stories. It's like you get booked for these jobs that you know you're not ready for, but you go the lie is yep, I can do that and you've never done it before and you just work it out.
Speaker 2:But the difference I think I really feel with the creatives that I admire, who I really look up to, still to this day. We turned up for the job, so I got booked as a makeup artist and I've never done makeup before in my life. Okay, I'll tell you. I'll tell you the biggest, biggest day that ever. I'm so ashamed anyway. No, don't be here we are. After I came back from Istanbul, I had a call from TAFE college to teach this makeup school course during the school holidays. I was in my young 20s. I modeled for a minute, so I thought I had a bit of an idea about makeup and also my hairdressing training. We did a little bit of makeup, basically a little bit. So when Tate said school holidays, I just assumed it was school kids and I went yes, great, I can do this. Turned up and it wasn't kids, it was trainers. Makeup teachers from colleges all around the country were flown in for me. I just died on for a two-week call. We had internet back then.
Speaker 2:I couldn't google this stuff yeah yeah, no training, no idea, like I'd never done makeup in my life and it was the best. Now I look back, most frightening, confronting amazing two weeks of my life because, one, I never demonstrated anything. Two, what I did is I would do this they are so good at manipulating the class out of fear, what I would do is I'd go okay, so today we're gonna do a red lip. I want you, and they all had models and I said I want you all to do a red lip and I will then so I can see where you're at. That was my line and what I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, around the room and watch and learn in this moment and then teach back exactly what I just learned. And then I'd get the best student teacher because I would teach us and this. And then I also lived with two drag queens at the time. So at night, yeah, amazing man, richard D Chazelle, who just deserved so much credit. Um, I would ring him and go right, I'm coming over to teach me eyelashes. So I'd spend the night learning how to do lashes and I'd teach that the next day.
Speaker 2:To recover from that, I did see some of these students who are still my friends, like 10 years later, after I did the course, and they both said to me it was the best course they ever did because it was all hands-on, it wasn't just me teaching best course ever did, because it was all hands-on, it wasn't just me teaching, and they got to see how each other taught. So but I, they taught me makeup and then again cut forward. I was very blessed to be one of Richard Shara's the most iconic makeup artist ever, one of his last students. So that again was another piece of the puzzle that brings me to where I am now wow, but you so?
Speaker 1:I can't imagine. Like were you terrified when you were teaching these people? Oh my gosh, you must have been on a ball of anxiety well, I still am.
Speaker 2:This is the thing. I have. So many people in this industry that talk about confidence and not having I never had a day, ever. I mean, I'm still. I'm like I'm nearly 54 years old and I don't know if this is a comforting thing or a non-comforting thing, like I'm still scared. Every job I do like. Every job I work with Jess Malvoy, the nicest human, the most beautiful human you've ever met.
Speaker 2:Every time I do her makeup, in my head I'm like am I good enough? Is this going to be right? Can I do better? And it's that voice in my head which never goes. I don't know whether that pushes me. Um, it's exhausting, but yeah, yeah it's. It's just always that fear is always there and maybe because I know that I don't know, I actually know what I'm thinking about. Is it because that's how my career started? I'm not sure. Yeah, so it's just. I think, at the end of the day, how you get there is how you get there and the story of the story, and it doesn't matter as long as you make up for it and you train and you become really good and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so then you went on to be a student. What was the make-up artist's name? Richard?
Speaker 2:Scharer. That's it. It's Richard Scharer.
Speaker 1:R-A-H. Richard Scharer, richard Scharra, richard Scharra. So you went on to be his student. Does that mean you assisted him or he taught you formally?
Speaker 2:Who he is, in case people are a little bit unaware. I still think he's the greatest make-up artist that ever walked. Until Pat McFarlane came along, he was David Bowie's make-up artist. He was iconic during the Ziggy stardust era, so I've seen the drawings of the original lightning bolt and the clown.
Speaker 2:I can google richard shower. There's famous photos of him with david bowie. Interesting thing about richard he's colorblind. He's passed away, by the way. Yeah, I was one of his last students. He at the end of his life. He decided to teach and I was very lucky to be kind of introduced to Richard. You couldn't just turn up.
Speaker 2:Not many people knew that he was teaching and then you'd have to have a call on the phone, you'd have to get a feeling from you. So he got a good feeling from me and I was living in Brisbane, flew down. I've only ever had 28 hours of training because his course was three days of him and just one person, one-on-one. Three hours, that was it. It was a two to three day break. Three hours, and that's how it was. It was 10 days all up and that was it.
Speaker 2:And on the second last day I thought I was the worst makeup artist in the world and my dream was just to. I'd never done a course. I'm working as an artist in Brisbane. And my dream was oh, imagine if I got to do Dolly magazine. That would be the biggest career highlight ever. And I thought I better learn something. And then going to him was so intimidating. It's like being a painter who's not very good car social instructor. On the second last day I remember saying you know, richard, I feel like because I just felt so intimidated in a good way, but thinking I'd never be anything like him what I'm kidding myself. You know, you don't even need to a pager, you don't even need to spend the last day with me.
Speaker 2:I've gotten so much out of you and because I just felt I was the worst student ever, like I just felt I was disappointing him so much and he said no, you'll hate saying this, but he said you're one of the best students ever to walk through my doors. I want you to fly to Sydney and become my assistant. And I did within a week, oh, moved down. Yeah, it was incredible.
Speaker 1:And that's how you ended up in Sydney. Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 2:If it wasn't that, I probably wouldn't have been game enough to come. Never thought I could ever work, even in Sydney. I'd never compare that like heaven. Work even in sydney, I'd never compare. That was that thing, you know. Interesting. Here's a good thing, because you know what it stops you, but also you're too scared to say no. That's how it worked for me, like yeah, it's facilitating.
Speaker 2:But I was like, okay, I can do that. I got off it. I used to get booked for special effects jobs in my career and I used to say yes because I was too scared to say no. So I said I used to give all my money and pay an amazing special effects person to come along and assist me and get them to do the job and give them all my money because I didn't realize you could just say no. I was just too scared.
Speaker 1:So crazy what anxiety can do yeah, it is crazy what anxiety can do. Um just, can we talk more about that? Because I've definitely experienced a lot of anxiety through going to jobs, probably probably thinking in my head the worst thing that could happen. That never happens, but just the fear. You know how you feel like getting to the job, so you did mention that you still get scared all the time, but has it gotten easier?
Speaker 2:I just know, I think, what it is. The anxiety with our jobs is we have to make such quick decisions within seconds on being on set. Because one thing I've learnt you know you can't teach taste, and I mean that in a positive way. Yes, my taste is very different than someone else's. The anxiety also comes from you've got five, 10, 15 people, even one person, that their idea of beauty, and there's a million things that are beautiful. It's like turning up to a job and going I want you to make a wedding dress Now without knowing the person. You know the kind of wedding, the taste, the budget, how it's going to be photographed. There's 20 million things that I'm processing and they're all correct. But if you don't choose the right tool for that job, it can just go south really quickly. And the hard thing with makeup.
Speaker 2:I find we're the first people on set with the first thing that everything's everyone's looking at so like stylists.
Speaker 2:They can change a shirt. Take a shirt, blah, blah. Photographers can be late, can change lighting, but makeup's one of those things that it sets the tone for the whole day. Um, and it is personal, you know, being that that person of, I think the anxiety also comes from. You know, in the level that I'm working in, I'm working with people at the top of their field as well, so their opinion does really really matter. And I know, for me, I'm in a complete panic until I get that moment when the model or the client goes, or the bride goes. That's really beautiful, like, and then then I become the happiest person. Yeah, it's either that or10 million, and I don't know what would make me feel happier, and I don't know why I torture myself, but I would never change it, because I've been in a room with artists where it's like this is what we're doing and they'll just stand by it no matter what. But at the end of the day, it's how someone feels. I'm really sensitive and I think anxiety and anxiousness makes you really sensitive.
Speaker 2:I say this thing I feel everything and nothing at the same time. It's either feel nothing or everything and I think, being really sensitive and also you're also so close to human beings, instantly you know that we were touched. We're in this phase in two minutes. That alerts every sense in your body, everything's heightened. So there's and and the other way it's. My friend, sarah laidlaw, she explains this beautifully. She says that other tricky thing with the hardest thing, with our job, every job we go to, it's like that feeling of the first day at a new office. You don't know. Yeah the bathrooms?
Speaker 2:where's lunch? Who's who's got the most power on the set? Am I making this? Am I just being told, put a green lipstick and you got two minutes? Like there's so much to process in such a short time. That's why sometimes I love a job that goes over two or three days, because day two you turn up yeah, I got this. This is, I feel, like that olympic athlete that's on that starting block there's so, there's so many decisions that you have to, you know, instantly, get those instant judgment of people You're with the model Is she tired? Is she exhausted? Does she hate makeup? Does she love makeup? Is the photographer you know, I think that's the anxiety is trying to work so many things within five minutes of arriving to a job yeah, and then also one more thing, sorry one.
Speaker 2:This is the thing too. When you work with high-end celebrities or high does anyone that's you know in the industry, especially celebrities, I always get asked do they make you nervous? And my answer is it's never the celebrity that makes me nervous. I get in awe or excited. But I'll give you an example Now. I've worked with her twice and the fear didn't come from her. The fear came from knowing she's had the world's best makeup artist. Do her face.
Speaker 2:She just came off a job with Pat McGrath. That's the nerves. It's knowing that they've had the most iconic people do their face. They know their shit um yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where the nerves also come from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah um, and just back to what you were saying about like it's your first day on a job, you know. Then you've got to find where to park and you know if you've never been to the studio before, and all those sorts of things, and they. They also add to the stress is their stairs. Yeah, five bags?
Speaker 2:how big is the headdress are nice? Is he going to take over? Does the? There's just so much? Yeah to, and every job every day like that's like a new day at work. It really is. That's why I love when I work with the same people, because I just know what it's going to be like. Then throw locations into it. Oh my God, I hate location shoots. I hate more, especially in summer. I hate them. I hate winter and I hate summer. I don't care where we are or how beautiful it is. I hate it. It can be an air-conditioned studio with bench space and good lighting and I'm the happiest person in the world. Location trucks I hate them in the world. Yeah, vacation trucks I hate them. They move. You can't things wrong. People step up on the vans. You're trying to do an eye line.
Speaker 1:Oh, I hate them. Yeah, that's so true, so true. All right, so you moved to sydney and you started assisting. Yes, how long did that, how long did that sort of happen for assisting?
Speaker 2:I mean I assisted richard and then I was so fortunate to assist dotty, who's still one of my makeup artists. She's looking at the Harry Styles and Alicia Keys and has done so many Italian vogues it's not even funny so I assisted her. I think that was on and off for about I think it was a good three to four years and I think it's so essential in this industry. So, yeah, I didn't assist as long as some other people did. I mean it seems like a long time, but probably it was full-time for a year to two years and then during the other assisting years I was starting to do my own thing on the side. But assisting is something that I just don't know how I would ever see. You know, to do what I do without assisting.
Speaker 1:I just find it essential really do, and I have never changed my mind on that yeah, and when you moved down to Sydney, were you doing hair as well, or you just sort of really laser focused in on makeup?
Speaker 2:oh, it's really funny. You say that because one thing I noticed and one thing the agency I had at the time I did notice this that to get into it and to get working, if you need to earn money which you have to when you come to a new city is if you do hair and makeup, you get a lot more work. You do because a lot of clients don't want two people, but then there's such two different disciplines. I really find that it's it's difficult and then as you move up and you get better at what you do, you do definitely focus on one or the other. And then if you want to work in the celebrity world, I would say in the celebrity world 50% of celebrities only want one person.
Speaker 2:I get that to travel. That's a lot more with two people. But then there's the other 50%. They'll have a separate hair and makeup. And, look, I still believe separating it is really important because they are one. They are two disciplines, two. When you do both you don't normally get more time, you get less and I think sometimes either hair or makeup gets a bit sacrificed, depending on the brief. But to be really serious, I really still think and this is just my personal opinion. To really succeed, you do choose one, yeah, otherwise one gets watered down a little bit was it a natural choice to go makeup for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I thought, yeah, it's harder.
Speaker 2:I really think, yeah, yeah, um, hair's harder also to makeup. You know, I always even say, when it comes to retouching, you can retouch bad makeup. It's very difficult to retouch bad hair. Hair is also more difficult because, like fabric, you can't achieve the same things you can't achieve unless it's cut that way or colored that way. Um, the wing work, you know it's, it's a lot more difficult. It's. Then you put location on top of that as well. Um, it's so that I chose one because one's harder. I just love, yeah, makeup. Um, I like being in the front too. I think it's really, yeah, I think what you can, yeah, that, hey, you can change someone, and I just, yeah, I love makeup because for me sometimes those beautiful hairs will stick back ponytail, yes, yeah, so definitely, I'm glad I try and being in a salon and yeah, I just really prefer makeup.
Speaker 2:I just do. Yeah, I think the salon tortured me.
Speaker 1:I think I it it traumatized me yeah, I'm a hairdresser too first and salon. I still think salon, working in a salon, is like such hard work.
Speaker 2:It's the hardest and the one it's. I don't think people understand you get paid so little.
Speaker 1:And I do find.
Speaker 2:I know this might not come across because I'm so sensitive too. I do find people quite draining. My energy gets really drained and to be on like that constantly it's really. It's a really personal thing. And and not only that, I find people I'm great with them like I could never work in movies, because being on set like I like being on my own a lot too. Like people think I'm this social person I don't know if you're I find a lot of makeup artists really similar. We are really good at giving and, yeah, being sensitive and being there for people and being the therapist on set. But I tell you what? The second I'm in that car and those windows are up, I'm off like I switch. Yeah, I'm not the one then to go to a dinner or go. I'd like being on my own in my own space. So, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I always think you, when like hairdresser or makeup artist, actually when you're because you're with somebody and it's generally for at least an hour, kind of quite intense yeah, Just you and them and I just I feel like you're not really with many people in that way in life.
Speaker 2:No, you're not.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it is a huge energy exchange, you know, and if you're doing a cut and colour, it can be hours.
Speaker 2:That's the other thing too. It's like I love I know this probably sounds really rude, but I love when people in and out it's great. But it's when you know like to perform like that and to be with so many people that close intimately one after another. It is a lot. And again, you know there's so much psychology in being a headrest. There's so many things that you know I work. Back to the plastic surgery department.
Speaker 2:I was in this great lecture from a psychiatrist who was talking about body dysmorphia and I can't remember the exact figures, but it was higher than I thought. It was something like I don't agree like 2%, but it was either 10, 10 or 20%, I'll find out. People who go and see a plastic or cosmetic doctor have body dysmorphia, and so I took away from that going. That means 10% to 20% of people who sit in front of me, no matter what I do, will never be happy and it is really hard not to take that personally. You know it's really hard not to do that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I find that, yeah, people, I find it's exhausting and also too, I don't know, being female and I don't think it's just one thing, but when you're working with such young people and you know that sometimes if they're having a problem in life or they really come to you and I think because they don't know you, they can be more open, which sounds weird, yeah, because they're not going to see you again. So I think sometimes it's easy to be a bit more exposed. But part of me is always like I think now I'm a little bit older and I've been through some things, I know that sometimes five minutes of me showing them so much love or connection, or they're in a foreign country, can really just be that moment that could help them in their life. So I feel a big responsibility. Sometimes, yeah, a lot of someone's struggling with something in life or a boyfriend issue, or they want to do this in their life and and they want advice. So again, I'm really aware of who I am around young people because I really want to be a good person, you know. So I just sometimes I want to turn up and just go. Can I be bothered?
Speaker 1:yeah, I know what you mean. Don't get that absolutely. And I think, too, something that maybe isn't spoken about much is that time in the chair, whether it's, um, a bride, a celebrity, a model, you know it's, it's more than just the makeup. It is that connection, and you are sort of setting them up for the day, like you know, like their experience can then change how they perform or you know what I mean, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:One thing Richard taught me, one of the things he said to me. He said your job is when someone sits in their chair. If they don't leave that chair feeling better, lighter and feeling beautiful, you haven't done your job. And I remember going gee, that's a lot to take on. But you know the other thing too the vulnerability like, especially if you're with someone whose persona is purely about how they look and they're sitting in front of you with no makeup on, quite exposed, and also too sometimes because you are a bit of a blank canvas in front of someone. If you're kind I've seen it a lot Like all I've had to do is like give someone a really nice, deep, intense, kind smile and people can just burst into tears, or this is a lot that there's these magical moments.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I wish makeup artists would all put GoPros on our head and people could actually see how many beautiful intimate moments we get with people. So, again, it's such an amazing time, but it's yeah, yeah, emotional. It's more than makeup. I always say that makeup's probably 20% of what we do there's. So, yeah, I agree, it's about how you make someone feel. I'll say that you can be the artist, but if you don't make people feel good, um, it's part of our job, and what a great job you have yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree and it is a great job to have it's, it's a hobby, I think, yeah, so assisting, and then did you go on to have your own agent.
Speaker 2:So yes, from there. From there, look, really agencies are still. I mean, the way the games change obviously a bit now with social media, but agencies were just essential. There was no other way. So I was assisting because, if you think about what a lot of younger artists don't realize or actually I didn't realize this either agents aren't really there to build your career. They're there to take care of clients who call in and go I'm from Vogue or I'm looking after, I don't know, harry Styles. Um, I need, or I've got a beautiful Sudanese, south Sudanese girl that needs a makeup artist. Whatever it is, their role is to find the best artist they have on their books for that job. So an agency. It's very rare that an agency will just cold call and just put a makeup artist on without coming from a bit of assisting background and the reason, like I said earlier, 20% of what we do is make up. The rest is what do you like on set, are you?
Speaker 2:quick-waging Are you on time? Are you rude? What do you like? And you know in agency it's a reflection of them. So they're very reluctant to take someone who hasn't come from an assisting background because you do learn so much about. You know where do you fit on set. When do you really fit in this hole, like even you know?
Speaker 2:I remember the first time I went on to a movie set and I wanted to check the hair and makeup, how it looked like on the monitor, but my monitor didn't look good. So I walked into the client's tent and watched it from there and it was like you never do that. Even if you go for food and catering on a movie set, the director, then the, then there's a pecking order and these things have to be. Are you really quiet on set? Are you taking social media photos before the campaign comes out? And that's why agents are just like you know what. If you've come, I mean I will give myself a shameless plug. I think I've trained, I've assisted. Well, I'll start again.
Speaker 2:Some of the biggest names now in Australia have come through assisting me and it's not because I made them a better makeup artist. I know that I'm. I'm very good at teaching and I'm very good about. There's so many other things than your social media page. It's how you are on set. So, definitely, agents have an important role and I was lucky to have an agent without a portfolio and sometimes that's the thing an agency will put you on their books because if they have if, for example, in my agency, I mean I've gone, I follow my own booker. So wherever my booker goes, I can't okay, you know it's, it's great because, like, if no, if I'm not available and it's a job that it's, it's my aesthetic they'll give it to my assistant or someone that I'll recommend someone's amazing on social media.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've seen this a lot like. There's incredible artists on social media and I've seen it with my own eyes. They get booked, you know, because of their following, um, you know, to direct shows. I've seen it go horribly wrong and it's not the artist's fault. They're just not used to directing a team of 20 artists. When you've got like there's so much more than just being really good, you know, there's so many other. Yeah to learn, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you touched on that because I I sort of think, once you get to a you know a certain ability level, there's a lot of people who can do the same thing. You know what I mean. Maybe not to your taste level, but it is more about who you are, what your personality is like. You know how you make people feel. So I'm so glad that you talked about that, because that's something that I don't think anyone ever told me and I think it's really, really important. And how you said about directing the shows, you know people might get booked to do this because of their following, but they've not actually had the experience and they don't know the whole process of how it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it goes. There's two things that really really changed my life in a very young, very young part of my career. It was I was really lucky to be a fly on the wall, for I I wasn't on Pat McGrath's team, but a friend of mine worked for Dior in Paris and I just assumed when Pat designed for a show, she just this is in the early days around the Egyptian show she did it's my favorite show ever for Dior and I just thought she just did a face. And then here, john Galliano, what do you think? And he would go, go, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what I didn't understand is that, for example, I remember this moment of like 20 different looks, that probably a hundred no sorry, but a hundred different looks forward to a show. And I remember the first thing seeing the mood board of all these looks even the one that was probably the worst one was still the best thing I'd ever seen in my entire life and the interaction between her and John. It was like I don't like that thing, but I like that, I'm not sure. And there was never a moment where Pat was yeah, but you've got to have that red lip, because red lip. There was never any of that and I was so fortunate to work with Eugene Solomon Again watching him, I remember him doing this ponytail that took probably four hours.
Speaker 2:Another artist too actually both of Muriel is another French hairdresser and she was the same four hours did the most incredible ponytail from Paris, has done the biggest shows, comes to Australia and on a job, the client was like I don't like it and there was not a moment of yeah, but because this is happening because of Trent, she went okay, I'll change it. There was never a moment of ego, it was just let go and that takes experience. There was that one, there was another one. I've just forgotten the second one but it will come back to me. But yeah, it was just those moments. You know, letting go of ego is a really important thing and it's yeah, yeah, it's a great chance back to how 20 of a job is makeup.
Speaker 2:So this, okay, I'll give you a perfect example marie claire. So marie claire. Let's say you're getting booked to do marie claire. And let's say marie claire goes to my agency and my agency has 50 makeup artists on their book and they're all the best of the best. Now, if you look at marie claire, it's beautiful, it's classic, there's nothing weird. And let's say you're getting booked for a cover and you have to fly to the bahamas Best of the best. Now if you look at Marie Claire, it's beautiful, it's classic, there's nothing weird. And let's say you're getting booked for a cover and you have to fly to the Bahamas.
Speaker 2:Do you think Marie Claire is going to book the really cool, crazy artist that's a bit of a diva, best makeup artist you've ever seen like can make my dad look like Kate Moss, like brilliant genius who is? You know where's my driver? I'm only flying business class blah, blah, blah. Or do you think Marie Claire is going to choose that really sweet, young, up-and-coming artist who does a beautiful red lip, who turns up? No ego, gets her job done? Oh, I don't like that red lip. Can you make it green? Yeah, sure I will. Who are they going to choose?
Speaker 2:Because people forget in the editorial world our rates are the same. Like you don't get paid more because you're better, you just get paid that rate. So making the client's job easier and making and you're not the most important person on set at all. So that's really important. You can't. You know that takes time as well, and that's the biggest problem with social media and there's so many good things as well is it's a very self-focused thing. I follow my likes and I get a little bit worried for the up-and-coming artists. Different to doing it on. If you want to become that social media person that just does their own face and there's incredible artists out there, amazing but if you want to work with other people and do editorial and work with celebs and work with models in high fashion and do that kind of thing, um, it's a very different mindset and you've got to get your head out of me, me, me, like it's what you go through. That's really important.
Speaker 2:Like one of my favorite artists is peter phillips and if you go back and look at his iconicness and what he's been able to do. But there's been shows I never forget. I was showing his shows to a class of students and one of the big shows he did was no makeup, and I can hear them all going, oh but I can do that, I can do that, but no, but he chose to do that. He chose what he wanted to do was really powerful as well in this industry. And, yeah, there's so much to learn there is. That's what I love about. Yeah, so much to learn and there's so much to learn. That's what I love about this. Yeah, there's so much to learn and there's so many areas you can work in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, these are great chats. Thank you, Ray Pleasure Loving it. What were we talking about? Just what you don't, ego. Where were we up to? Oh, that's what I was going to ask. So yeah, you were mentioning that you worked with Pat or worked. Did you work with Pat, or you just?
Speaker 2:I worked on her show but I didn't have a visa and they were cracking down on visas at the time. But I got to. Linda Cancelo and Kendall Okay, cool Askendrick. Richard Charron yeah, got to. Yeah, work with some iconic people.
Speaker 1:So you, so I've done some overseas fashion weeks.
Speaker 2:Yes, did many did a few seasons, not a lot, because I started to do seasons getting on the teams. It was great. I had an agency in Paris, bac, and then I got the role with L'Oreal and that was great, it was awesome.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:L'Oreal and Australia. Their fashion weeks were colliding with Paris Fashion Week and I had to make it but also had a mortgage to pay, yep, and so I chose which is still amazing like to work here in Australia. It was great, very different. The shows are very different, and one thing I learnt a lot again, which was so rewarding the bigger the artists like. So you go to Paris and this isn't all for Australia but a lot of the differences I found is when you work in the Paris shows and I'm sure you've spoken to many incredible artists who might have said the same thing the calmness.
Speaker 2:There's no yelling and screaming. It's, it's very quiet. It's very taken very seriously. Hair and makeup um, if you need five hours to do hair and makeup, you get five hours and there's just this order and control. There's no screaming, yelling. It's just not that. It's very disciplined and it's taken very seriously. Um, so you're not out there partying and laughing and having a disco like that's not how it works, um, and I I love that about working overseas. It was just to see people at the height of their career being very calm and very ordered and very polite and very respectful, and it was. Yeah, it was amazing the people I got to work with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you did that for a few years and then you became the L'Oreal creative director. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was the longest it's all globally. I'm still the longest ever person. L'oreal was signed for them for 10 years. I was the longest it's all globally. I'm still the longest ever person. Laurie, I was signed for them for 10 years. I was their backup for Australia, which was amazing.
Speaker 2:To work with a brand that big was iconic, it was amazing and it was also, you know, I was so lucky. I directed over 150 shows here in Australia. I had the most amazing team, who I'm sure you've met half of them now yeah, you know, it was. Victoria Barron was on my team. Sandra Peele, who now looks after Kate Moss, sarah Laidlaw, lane Pye, joel Phillips I'm just trying to think I've had so many great artists come from there Casey, victoria, lina oh my goodness. Jazz Pampling oh my God. Her brow works insane, but that was great.
Speaker 2:Andrea, um, I had the same team for 20 or 15. Like I signed them for 10. I ended up working for them over 15 years. I go, but no, sorry, for 10 years I had the same team because, yeah, you know, budgets were great. Budgets were awesome. Yeah, um, used to fly to melbourne. We had drivers, we had. It was just great. But also melbourne show. What was awesome about those shows they were for the public, so public would buy tickets, so there was budgets. So, okay, great, sydney's a lot. So what was? Because they're designed, yeah, for themselves, and you know it's a lot of money for someone to put forward for a show and sponsors aren't as big as what they were.
Speaker 1:Because one's Fashion Week and one's a fashion festival. Is that?
Speaker 2:correct yes.
Speaker 2:Fashion Week is more well, it's changed a bit now. They've opened it up to consumers a bit more, but Sydney was always industry only. It was always for buyers, which it still is. They do allow, I think, some public to some shows where Melbourne is purely public and you watch it and what you see you can buy. So it's great for brands because they need to sell clothes. So I thought it was really important, because it's great to have these iconic shows that are, you know, especially in Paris and Milan, but you can't buy that stuff straight away. And it's great for inspiration to see what's coming and they direct the world of what's happening a lot with hair and makeup. But what's also really important, which I loved about Melbourne, there was a care and you know we need to help these designers to sell clothes and I love that so you could watch it and then go buy it tomorrow. So I thought it was really awesome they did that.
Speaker 1:And when you had this role with L'Oreal, what, what? So you did the fashion weeks. What other things were you responsible for?
Speaker 2:a lot, so all their charges yep, I'm taking products and trying to work away like, taking those brands, but because a lot of the products are quite were quite commercial and but finding creative and artistic ways to use it and it was really good that I it was. It was a consumer brand but it was very elevated, like and also, if you look at the spokespeople they had at that time and Beyonce, hailey Berry, jennifer Lopez, like all like the names were just huge back then. So we had these iconic people who were the face of the brand. Budgets were great, but I had a, my main, I had probably 50, 50.
Speaker 2:So the the fashion weeks was finding, you know, to find inspiring looks, but you could buy all these products at the time and I'd always. It was interesting, though there was not a little bit of a battle because they would say bring out a color part that I just didn't love the color mixture. But then I have, I'd find different ways of using it, which I love that they didn't have that freedom, which was great, and also my main role was more me.
Speaker 2:So L'Oreal and then the beauty editors, because I have to write, okay, humors, so and I loved it because it was like I always define a product and how can I use this completely in a different way that it's made for. And L'Oreal Paris, which was great. They kind of, but they it took a while to get that trust, but that I loved it. It was like how do I take a blush and make it into an eyeshadow and how do I, you know, how can I make it fun and more interesting, and I really loved that role. So I had great trips and it was me and all the magazine editors. That was like Harper's and Vogue and Sigourney, and you know some really iconic people who are still in the industry. You know, travel with them and, yeah, do shows and launches and media. It's great.
Speaker 1:I loved it, so launches. So does that mean you would be demonstrating using the product?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they'd come in and go here's our spring-summer palette. It's coming out and you know, people in Paris had amazing people, I think it was Marc at the time, marc. I'm going to say his last name and I don't want to say it the wrong way. He was the global director.
Speaker 2:And now Val Garland is there as well now like iconic makeup artist, and so, yeah, it would be launched in Paris. I'd get sent it here, it is Okay. And now it's June, but they're going to run this in Vogue Harper's Clio Cos in November. So so, shoot, do some shoots um, talk to the media, launch it, do events demonstrate. Yeah, it was really pressure. The pressure was on. It was one of the biggest global. At the time. It was the number one cosmetic brand in the world, so I was very honored to have that role how are you like?
Speaker 1:because just going back to anxiety and stuff still terrified every day. Like, how did?
Speaker 2:you go.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny.
Speaker 2:There's two things I'm not when it's inspiring consumers or taking products, and no, getting up in front of 10,000 people don't even look at it. Even with the plastic surgery thing I feel terrified, but no, because I do know that one thing I do I know I'm good at education because I struggle with makeup and I kind of look back and go.
Speaker 2:I wish I had someone like me to help direct me when I was doing what I and I'm really grateful that I put myself in so many areas in the global companies of like L'Oreal and then the medical part, and then teaching and then not being able to do make-up, like I've had to really hone my skills in so many areas. So I really feel for that younger and anxious me that's sitting in that room going I can't even paint a straight line. Now I learn to airbrush because I couldn't blend. I mean I just really struggled with make-up. I remember with my drag queen friends, even to this day, if I'm in a room with other artists we're playing with eyeliners and I can watch these artists just go boom and it's done. I've never had that skill like I'll get it amazing. But I'll tell you what like to get a lip perfect. I'm known to be fast as well, but you know a lip will take me longer than anyone else. I'll get it perfect, but I'm not. I don't have that steady hand. So I just feel you know that's really helped me.
Speaker 2:So the education getting up, that doesn't. There's the things that don't give me anxiety at all. Yeah, okay, there's things that do. And you know what gives me anxiety when you're in that editorial space, in that fashion space. You're there to be to inspire other artists. So the expectation of me is huge and that is the anxiety, and then every makeup I ever do. Even to this day, I have two voices. I have richard charis and pat mcgrath's, and I always what would they think which makes the simplest eye? It's not what my friends think, or my husband, who's so supportive of my daughter. It's what would pat, which puts a lot of pressure on me.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of pressure. Yeah, the way I explain it to artists who want to do and work in the industry that I'm in it's like this is how I explain it to my daughter. I'm like Sophia, imagine that you one day pick up a tennis racket and you're going to go play tennis and you're okay at it. A tennis racket and you're going to go play tennis and you're okay at it. But then you say to me mummy, I only want to play for Wimbledon. That's kind of what I feel the fashion editorial world is. It's the best of the best in that area that you have to. You know you're creating trends, you are. You know you're inspiring other artists, because that's all I I don't know about. The artists are the same, but that's the opinion that really matters to me, like you know, which puts a lot of pressure on me.
Speaker 2:Because it's easy to get my friends to go. Yeah, you're amazing, that's great. I don't care about that. Like, that's great, they'll do that no matter what. But you know, there's a couple of people in the industry that I go to really respect and their opinion I'm like, like I'm designing packaging for brand.
Speaker 2:And delano, that's another conversation. But, um, he's like my creative genius. I can't breathe without this man and I'm just a simple thing. Okay, this is so. I'm going so left to center, but I've I did this little logo idea for my brand and all my friends are, oh, my god, that's amazing. And I'm like I'm gonna ask delano what he thinks. And I asked Delano and he's like and it was like this little squiggle that I did, and he went who do you think you are? You're not YSL, who can do YSL and people know who you are. How do you Google that, ray? How do people know what that even means? I'm like oh, okay, so I do have these people in my life that I go. What would they think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, so we'll go back to L'Oreal, so would you do photo shoots for them? Yeah, okay, all of it, all of it pretty much. Was that mostly what you did during that time, or were you still doing?
Speaker 2:No, it was interesting because people thought that, because I think it was 30 days of the year, that was it Okay, because everything I did was fed through to magazines, blah, blah. I got the biggest noise out of it, so I can spend, you know. And then fashion week was, so it was 30 days, and then the six days of fashion festival, which I mean, I think I could be wrong, but I think I remember Mark Tucker, who was who was yeah, mark said to me that that week, fashion Week, laura, they'd spend like 10 mil just on billboards and all the work that I'd done, or you know, in all the media, which was always me. I remember doing Fashion Week too. We used to have that fashion TV and MTV and all things line up and for one show, every magazine would do a piece on it, because Laura always had the budget to do it. So people assumed it was full-time. It wasn't, it was 30 days. The only downside which wasn't a downside, but it does stop you getting a lot of other work because people assumed I was full-time with L'Oreal. That was what was and that was the only reason I decided to leave.
Speaker 2:I was there for 10 years and also, too, I always had had that fear of you don't want to be in a company too like you want to leave when they love you, like when you're at the height, which is a dangerous thing to take to do. But I thought I'd rather do that than, like you know, still there. You know 85 years and they go right, this is the time you go. So I thought I'm gonna leave and it was the hardest conversation still to this day. It was a really difficult conversation because that was so good to me, I was really blessed to be there, and it was humbling as well, because you know you don't have the power in this day, and that's one thing. You think you're going into these brands now I'm gonna rebel. I know you've still got to really stick to what does that brand stand for? And it was something I do remember Eugene Solomon saying he was talking about when he does the shows. You know and I think about this what's a creative process look like? And he said well, a Prada woman is very different to a Yoji Yamamoto woman and a Yoji is very different to a Gucci woman. And so when you're working for that brand, you've got to immerse yourself within that brand and that's what I think a lot of younger artists. I try and teach them. If younger artists, I try and teach them. If they're coming on a job with me, I want you to really look at who's shooting it, who the client is one of the biggest mistakes I made too.
Speaker 2:I've told Eddie Ming this story so many times. When I first started Eddie Ming's this really cool, um, not too much makeup, all about the cool girl look, I was like a lot of hair and makeup dislikes the girl to be who they are and I just came out of Richard Scharra course of contouring and like, put everything on the face you possibly can. David Bowie, you know he's a. He started. I've just come from that training and I didn't research Eddie Ming and I never forget this.
Speaker 2:I did not do a job with. It was for was, was, it was Rush magazine, it was one of the oyster magazine. I never forget this. Oh yeah, and actually I was sent home. It was that bad because I turned up and did every latch, contour, brow, I think. I brought triple braided, put nails on you and just looked at me and went and I remember what he did. He turned the model around and shot the back of the head and it was completely my fault because it's like I was trying to do the ratio and you really got to look at who that photographer is.
Speaker 2:You know, if a photographer loves makeup or if there's a photographer that only shoots black and white, don't turn up and try and get him to shoot color. It's really interesting. You've really got to get into the mind of the photographer and who's shooting it and the client and be inspirational, of course, but still remember what's their age bracket, who's like? Really go down that path of and I do that a lot, I do so much research. I didn't care what brand. I had a. The other day I was shooting for this awesome it was at Moss Spy and I saw the last campaign that what would I do different?
Speaker 2:And I turned up with mood boards and the client was like no one's ever done this before and I don't run every job turned up with mood boards and and the client was like no one's ever done this before. Now I do every job. I've got a bucket of references that I because I don't you know if I turn up and go, um, I really think we should do this glossy, shiny skin, and they're like, yeah, but our age brackets, this does that work?
Speaker 2:um, being inspirational, but within what that brand is Like my brand. I'm Japanese, I'm not Japanese. The brand's Japanese. It's all about minimalism. So I'm never going to look like a Charlotte Tilbury in brand. You know she's very loud and that's who she is, and so that's interesting too, understanding what a brand stands for before you even walk in that door. Research is really important.
Speaker 1:And when you say you create the mood boards, do you do old school cutting out magazines, or is it a oh, okay, it's a good job coming up. Okay, so you do you cut it all? Yeah, that's awesome. So it's not like it's not.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm sitting off camera for a sec, it's all right. I do a lot. I mean I do the printed version, but I've also kept one of my because I love it so much. But I'm old school so I have I print it. I've got this local printer who's really affordable yeah, that's for like a pile that big and I love the old school.
Speaker 2:You know print and I even yeah um, and sometimes if I'm a little bit so they're really good, for I say this too. I still do it now. So if I'm shooting, say a fashion story again. What's fashion like if you look at a lot of the fashion magazines, if you look at Harper's and Vogue and you look at what a lot of editor doing 10 conversations at once? So I think to editorially, people get a bit confused where again who are you doing editorial for?
Speaker 2:if you're doing editorial for viable harpers, have a very it's a lot of it's very clean. Like a lot of the most high fashion jobs that we do is literally no makeup. It's more about the girl like it's not about makeup. So you know, if you're new high fashion editorial, I'm going to tell you about 50 of what you do is minimal, no, no makeup. That's what it is.
Speaker 2:So the reason for the references is because it helps me get a mood of what photographer is liking and not because I can show one little trick that I do, like if I've got a makeup idea and I really want to go for it, and I do it and the photographer goes have you finished?
Speaker 2:And you know that's sort of a backhanded criticism I just show them something from Paris Vogue that's similar and they go oh, that's amazing. So I sometimes use these images and I make sure they're from Paris Vogue or Tali Vogue or something iconic, and it helps me, if I've got an idea, sometimes having a bit of a backup for them by seeing that you know the way this is lit, the way the models you know, because unless they've seen it before, how are they going to be inspired by it, if that makes sense. So I do mood boards and they're really good for clients as well, Because when you say, do you like a smokey eye? There's a hundred different smokey eyes and going, trying to make that decision is really hard. Um, and the other great tip I do is I get clients and whether it's models or shoots or whatever to send me their mood boards, because I need to get inside there, yeah, to see what they love. Yeah, let's go put some lip balm when you're, my lips are so dry.
Speaker 1:That's when you're working with um, a celebrity. So we'll talk about jess, because you mentioned her before. Do you workshop the look you're gonna do on her, like leading up, or sometimes you just show up and wing it, show up and wing it, but there's a reason I'm not good.
Speaker 2:Okay if it's. If it's okay, how do I explain it? If it's a look for a celebrity, for a red carpet, I definitely workshop it. And what I do with personal, personal work. Before I will go through all the instagrams, I go through every look that's pretty much being done on them recently and I go what do I love, what don't like, what do I think worked, what doesn't work, blah, blah. So in my head it's a great like. What colour suits them? So I've got a great pool to draw from.
Speaker 2:I can pre-plan if I know the outfit, the clothes, the hair, but it really happens. But I'll still get myself so prepared. So, no matter what direction. So say, I think I study her like Jess and I love Jess in warm cover clothing. It's my favorite when she's in the oranges and when she's in those, yeah, her skin just goes amazing. But she does work with cool colors. But the palette has to change in makeup. So I will just in my head, because I don't know till the day I've got my sort of two ideas that I'm thinking.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the fashion stuff, I'm going to be really honest, I I'm not good at preparing because until I've seen the girl, seen the clothes, been there on the moment, that's when I'm at my best. So I don't love when people go. Can you do a mood board? Uh, it's fine, but I don't. Like in three weeks time we're shooting this girl. Give us your ideas. I don't. I'm not good like that. I'm good on the day because I put a lipstick on.
Speaker 2:So when I have a girl and say it's a fashion shoot, like you've got to be prepared to just let it go, like that's what you're there for is to make the best decision and also let go of an idea on the day. That's what you're there for to make the best. If it's not working, you'll let it go. So a lot of times the fashion shoots I'll have a bit of a play moment where I'll have a look at a play. If lighting's set up, throw her in, pull her back out, and then it comes to me. That way I go in with ideas, but most times, if I pre-plan it, it never ends up being that. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:When I say wing it, yeah, but I'm very prepared to wing it on the day and I think that comes from my anxiety. I know that I'm not. I won't pull out Picasso on the spot, but I'll have about 10 plans that I know that if I'm going to go this way, I've got the airbrush gun, I'm ready to go. But my best mind always happen on the I plan. One thing I get halfway through it and I go no, that's not working, let's do that, and that always is how it works. So I don't like to. I don't have to promise anyone because I don't know if that's going to work out on the day, which scares people.
Speaker 1:What about Jess? Was it the Voice that's just started?
Speaker 2:hasn't it I've done.
Speaker 1:Leanne. Oh Leanne, sorry Leanne.
Speaker 2:Had you worked with her before, she's okay. So again, it's like I mean my, I haven't met him, but I call him my friend. Troy surat looks after her, and so how that process works, ah, okay, yeah, I will pick you and they, they do pick you based on your social meters. That's really important. Your social media is your website, so your website, that's what they do. They go first thing. I even do, if I'm booking a makeup, I go straight to their Instagram and see what they do. So I got chosen for that reason.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes it depends on the artist, like Leanne, she just turned up on the day and she, you know, she just trusted me. I think it was Troy Surratt recommended me as well. So there was a base base there. But sometimes at Kelly Rollum, when I first worked with her, we met, but again, it's like the day before and I got to do her face and then, you know, she decided whether she wanted to go ahead or not. Um, so it's very different with whoever you work, but I've had brides where I meet them on the day of their wedding. I've never met them before. Um, yes, it's so different. And again, that fact of the anxiety there's no system there's no, I don't know how it works like it's really different. Most times you just turn up yeah, you're with them, you get the work done, you got an idea, they trust you, they have high expectations and you just hope to god it works out well, yeah, and was it different outfits?
Speaker 1:I just, I haven't um so what's the worst? Is it continuity?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for continuity. So what they do is I mean, I've signed an NDA but obviously it's out now so I can talk about it what they do for all the blinds they'll all wear the same outfit. Yeah, and the reason I get now why they do that because being on the show for so long now that you know if there's a mistake or a sound problem or they come back later and they've missed a camera angle or whatever, they can take a wide shot because they keep them on.
Speaker 2:They don't do that in any other country, I think it's only Australia. So only the blinds is done with one outfit, so it's one that you can get now, like when you'll see going into a different outfit. And a lot of the internationals are completely styled in their own country and all those photos are sent to us. Um, okay, she's great. She just trusts myself. And again, going back to land, I can't imagine liam with a big red lip and false lashes. That's not who she is.
Speaker 1:So I won't keep it in that earthy natural tone.
Speaker 2:And you know, even like she's, she's just her and jess. Both of them make me want to be a better person.
Speaker 2:They're just and then the real deal, and especially with Leanne too, like what really blew me away to see someone so dedicated to her craft, like there was not a day where she wasn't on the phone to her vocal coach, warming up her voice, like professionalism is just beyond, and the trust she has too. It's like you, you know. And but again, going back to, we have to be in a position you can do the best makeup, you think you've done the best thing. If they turn to go, I hate it, you go. Okay, change it. It's got to be, yeah, being flexible at that, yeah yeah, and how long do you normally get an hour makeup minimum one hour.
Speaker 2:I won't do it like people. You know time. You're going to be fast, yeah, but you know one thing I really richard shara said to me if you don't get two hours to do makeup, don't take the job. Well, that's a bit extreme because that won't work, but a minimum an hour. But one thing again I noticed traveling and being around the world's greatest um, some of the best makeup artists take the longest. Every brow hair is so important, like every the skin prep that you know I mean kelly roland, I got you know this there's a lot of work with hair. Face is so beautiful, but it's three to four hours and that's not us being slow, it's we are the nail, the cuticles that you know. The detail that that that goes into it is is incredible. So sure you have to be fast. There's times that you do, but you sure you have to be fast. There's times that you do, but you know again, if you have a really strong Instagram page or your images are great and you get booked because of those, I mean this is the thing, right?
Speaker 2:Special effects artists they're never told to do things in half an hour, are they? They never do half an hour. I've walked into special effects. Thank you, sheldon Wade, who's a legend. I talk to dogs with him and they go hair and makeup. How much longer? How much longer? You got half an hour Him. How long? Six hours? Don't even question him. I'm like what? Because someone can do it in half an hour doesn't mean it should be done in half an hour. Yeah, so you know I'll choose my weapon. So if someone says you've got 45 minutes, well, I'm not going to do a smoke, lashes and a bra, I'll just choose my weapon. But yeah taking more time.
Speaker 2:And going back to that point, if you've got incredible images on your instagram feed and someone goes I love what you did there and you say that took me six hours, they're not going to say do it in 10 minutes, are they?
Speaker 2:so I think what's going to really help you is having the imagery on your page that you want to be booked to do. And then you get booked to do it. You know you get. I mean, I've been in paris on shows. You know hair and makeup was seven, eight hours. Um, you know kabuki and brent lawler, who work a lot with steven klein, italian vogue. They told me they would do makeup six to eight hours. Brent told me six or eight hours and steven klein for italian vogue. Steven klein would arrive and go. No, I don't like it, come back the next day. You know, if you look at that and that's our biggest, that's the thing that gets me so angry. It's like we see these iconic make-ups and then you've got these young, incredible artists that just get told to hurry up. Why, why are you telling someone who paints a picture to do that in 10 minutes? I know I's.
Speaker 1:There's definite roles where you've got to be fast, absolutely, but if you were that artist, that wasn't incredible stuff. Do it present it to the world, and if it takes you six hours, that's how long it takes you. Um, do you do hair and makeup at the same time? I know you're not doing the hair, but are you sometimes, but I don't like to do it, but if someone's sorry, if someone's doing hair, are you doing makeup at the same time? Depends.
Speaker 2:I just can't With the movement, the head's down, I know and I make it really clear to the client. I go look, I'm not being lazy guys. I paint nails and I check. I can't do anything when the head's like that. No, it's just crazy. Yeah, you can't. And it's crazy, you can't. And like, hair and makeup is interesting. You know I always go who's got the hardest job today? Who's got the hardest job? If I've got the harder role, I'll do the eyes first. Okay, guys don't touch hair.
Speaker 2:Just let me get eyes on first and then head down but then head up, boom, boom, boom. So we work together and you know it's really difficult to do both.
Speaker 1:How do you do hair? How do?
Speaker 2:you make it.
Speaker 1:When it's going like that, it's crazy Blow waving. Yes, it's very difficult when it comes to your Instagram page. I love this conversation, do you like, do you? Because you were just saying you know the work you put out, there's the work you get and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So has it really thought through for you what you post Very To the oh my god. Yeah, I mean, if you look at it now, I've done another really cull of what I do. It's really important because you're also telling the world what you think beauty is, um, pretty important. I, yeah, what picture sits next to what picture and and the decisions I make. And it's really important especially to show people you're working with that you take, you understand position, lighting, lighting, cropping, composition, because as an artist, you've got to think about that too. Just to throw and don't throw everything you do on the page. You don't want to be everything to everyone and, yeah, elevation is really important. Like you know, the way you just crop a picture can completely make it look like a newspaper article to Paris Vogue. Just really consider it. And yeah, I'm very lucky, I've got two new girls that work with me, both incredible. And you know, tatiana Rose is a bit of a star in her own right and she's helped me with the imagery. We do it all here, my little next door on the floor, and another amazing girl. I walked into Mecca and I with the imagery. We do it all here, my little next door on the floor, and another amazing girl.
Speaker 2:I walked into Mecca and I saw the school Yasmin, and her make-up was beyond like this shiny, beautiful face and I just offered her a job. I didn't even know if she was good at doing other people. I didn't know anything about her background. I know you're part-time here. Any other days. You want to work for me? She said, yes, we don't have a design background. Yeah, no, it's really important.
Speaker 2:Like people I know, I talk about this all the time when I do masterclasses, I get really good art. It's really hard. I'm not getting any work and I look at their page and I'm telling you that's why you're incredible at what you do. Great and the goal in this industry to become the best artist you can be and be great at all age and all skin tones without the camera being on. Be amazing. Yeah, be really precise.
Speaker 2:If I want to book someone or get someone on my team, I look at eyebrow points and I'm not. I don't look at how good that smoky, I don't look at proportions and if they thought about the face as a whole and also the Instagram page, because I know this is crazy, but if I've got the choice of 50 people and I've got the same makeup on every page on the same model. But I've got. I know this sounds weird, but say the model's doing this and her nails aren't beautifully, perfectly polished. You didn't even do the nails not your job or the shirt's really wrinkled, just that you don't care about everything.
Speaker 2:And that image and I say this a lot it's more powerful if you have a page of 100 makeups. Pull that off, put two of the best ones you've ever done and maybe put an image of the most beautiful flower you've ever seen. Or you know what I love? This is me personally and I love when you show skin with no makeup on it's most beautiful skin you've ever seen. And this is interesting. But how I look at it, I think there's more power. And having someone any age, whether they're 15 or 50 or 80, have this incredible skin with most natural brown, no makeup on and photograph this beautiful natural light, that speaks more to me than having a technical makeup that looks good. Because when I see that incredible skin, I get two schools of thought. I get some people go yeah, but there's no makeup, ray, what is that doing? No, what it tells me that you know what beautiful skin looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Wow, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Or if you put an incredible flower or rose, it's lit. So wow, you know like I want to be part of your world, because what you think is beautiful.
Speaker 2:I do too, and it's a great way to attract your tribe. You know, it's really powerful to put incredible, yeah, even still life. Give your page room, treat it like a magazine. Um, because makeup. There is so many makeup artists and you are competing yeah, different pages and and sometimes with makeups what am I looking at? There's so much going on, even little things in the background. If I see a kitchen, a plate and a fork, I get angry. I'm like you can just consider it a little bit more, because if you want to work at this level, everything is considered.
Speaker 1:Everything. It shows your taste levels. Yeah, which took me a long time to learn, actually. Yeah, I think I used to just try and put everything up. Yeah, you know, I was a practical and we thought, I think, you know, when we first got social media, it's like we've got to get the likes. We've got to get the likes or something like you know what I mean, you've got to get all this attention. But now it's more, it's about your brand and your aesthetic and your taste levels, yeah.
Speaker 2:People want to be part of that world. Yeah, I think it's really, you know, for me and if I look at my page, I know like I'm I'm not known for and I think it's still great that baking very heavy instagram flash, people do it incredibly, but people won't go to my page and go. I'll book her for that because this is not what I do. I can do it, um. So, yeah, your page is really really it's if people don't realize you can be fun and it can be all that as well. Don't get me wrong, but I'm talking purely if you want to build yourself as an artist and get booked as an artist.
Speaker 2:I say this for brides, um, I think something that lets a lot of bridal artists down, and I'm only talking about people who come to me because I love consulting and helping people build their careers my favorite thing. But bridal artists one of the biggest mistakes and this is only for people that come to me and go why am I getting brides? Because you put every bride on your page and they go. But I'm working. No, that's not what you should do and I'm going to be brutally honest, but sometimes you put a bride and the hair wasn't done well, you didn't do the hair, the dress, it's not right and the tan lines and the nails aren't straight. And when you put that on as an image, you're not there to defend it. You're not there to say I know, I know that you didn't choose your dress.
Speaker 2:I know you didn't take that photo and the makeup's beautiful, but it gets lost because in the imagery, yeah, it's not polished. And if I'm a bride, I want to know that you, as an artist, will fix that strap if it's not right, or that you know that's what we do on set. So when I'm wet with hair, makeup and starters, if I run to the bathroom and something's not right, there's a team of people that are all to create the one image, and this is this point when you can tell someone who's not, hasn't been in it long enough.
Speaker 2:They're all fighting for their own space. Her hair's doing this and it's like no, sometimes it's, you're not doing anything, but making that hair stand up, making that girl look woman, man looks so beautiful is the goal every single time. So if that goal, how do I make that dress look the most beautiful? That's what our role is. It's to take. Otherwise a bride can just go to anywhere and get this done.
Speaker 2:But if they're booking you, they want you to come with that extra moment that they go you know, what, and that's why artists I remember Sarah Laidlaw, before internet she used to do like, was it 200 weddings a year didn't have a website or a business card.
Speaker 1:You know we'd go together and brides would come. 200 weddings a year, that's huge.
Speaker 2:Incredible, because you know, like we would just go in there and even photographer, would you know, move things around and the hair was we'd just be so in there, um, to make this perfect, as I mean there's. You know what's perfection? That's another conversation, but yeah, it's. I say that to makeup artists go back through your page. And the other thing too don't put seven photos of the same look, because it just shows me that you're you're trying to look busy. No, just less is more, less is more yeah, that's such great advice I'd love to do that as a full-time not a full-time, but a time-perfect.
Speaker 2:I'm actually being honest here. I would love to start like a day where I could just speak with artists and help them and go you know what can I do and just help. I'd love to do that because I've seen it happen. I mean, there's so many artists I know that I talk to and not that I know everything, but I've got really good advisors around me too that work and yeah, can they help me?
Speaker 1:yeah good, but you've also been, you've gotten, like you've been where they are and you're 100% you know. You know where you're, where you are and I think I think would be an amazing workshop. Yeah, let's do it. Do it, yeah, yeah, because you know. The one thing is it's really like to get really good advice, like you can get advice from anyone, but to get the right advice to get you to where you want to be is another thing. Like your mother can give you advice, but they're not in your. They don't do what you do yeah so yeah, love that huge following doesn't.
Speaker 2:Or I mean huge following is great for getting endorsements and getting certain products. Oh, yeah, I mean I did a video on TikTok recently and it was like on pseudo cream, would you believe? On pseudo. Oh, I think I saw that two million people watch that. I I grew like five people in following.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean you know my Instagram. I mean I here I'm recommending how, how things should look and feel. I'm not an expert, like I don't have the highest following in the world, but I know that I get really good clients, good work, because of that page. But it's taken yeah long like to learn what and I'm not always what's working, what's not working, because something it's. Also, I look at a page as a full unit as well and one post does really well. I, I go, yeah, but how does it look on the feed? How does it look? Yeah, so I'm probably not the one to ask about getting huge engagement, which is probably what social media is more about, but for my, yeah, it's imagery that I love, but it's still like, it's still talking about, like the imagery that maybe you put on your website.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean and you know this is another thing too.
Speaker 2:Again, your instagram has to reflect your website, has to have a, because if you're, if you someone's come into your page and they're loving who you are and your brand, then you go to your website and you're a complete different person. I do that. I got again another delano moment. I love really dark imagery, like I love palo reversi, I love yoji yamamoto and comme de garcon, like that's what I love. Um, a lot of it's really dark and I started to go a bit dark. If you look back in my page a bit earlier on, there's a lot of darkness. And delano said ray, your website's not dark. Sure, that's where you want to go, but that's not your branding. Like I didn't think of that. So that was a really interesting thing. But people do under it, people not as many people in the makeup world go to websites. They're there for booking, I get that, but not social instagrams where they'll go first.
Speaker 2:So I think, it's important to have that reflect your website and that's when people are going to go and check hair and makeup before they even go to your website. That's been proven. Yeah, agency said that all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that website's kind of a bit of a last stop they'll go to socials first yeah, because it's so easy, isn't it, to pick up your phone and just do the scroll on someone's page. So tell me about how you? Well, first of all, tell me how, about how long have you had the brushes for? Now that's been, they've been out for a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first concept we actually honey. We've looked at this recently. 2010 is when the idea came and then we went through dates of drawings and when we saw people, and 2011 is kind of when we started to build prototypes, but it was like 2000 and I actually don't know what year it actually launched. But I know that I started working on it 2011, I think, probably 2012, 13 when it first came out, and then the Japanese version. I think it's been about five years, but the collaboration has just come out this year, so I'd say it's a good. Yeah, it feels like a long time, but, yeah, a good 12 years. When the whole magnet thing came up In 2010, japan came. I think. I've been working with the Japanese now for seven years. Eight years I've been with the family. I call them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what inspired them. The madness was, again, function. I'm a person with luggage and organisation. I think most make like deporting Look how huge that is. Yes, and madness was just something. I mean it's mainly from coming from fashion shows like not like rushes has been thrown and not being able to sit up and travelling. I'd get to Paris and my canister would turn over and all the brushes would be just screwed. Also, trying to find a brush in a canister. You know you've got 400 brushes in a show, you've got a canister like that and you're looking at 300 brushes from that angle. How do I find what I need? I said it would be great to get brushes throw them. They just stood up so I couldn't believe. No one else thought of it, to be honest, and we were going to. I wanted.
Speaker 2:I went down this rabbit hole about brush making, always knew Japan did the best, what I believe still believe are the best brush in the world. The tsunami had hit around that time, so that was not good. That was round two, so we found a korean brush maker. We started the first range and then I started doing some research. So I was going down this rabbit hole and I found there was one man left alive. He's the only japanese master of craft left alive in the world. There's there's masters still there's about 30 in this in kimono town but there's only one master of craft left alive who can make a brush.
Speaker 2:Sitting behind me, um, I've got a tempio ude brush which takes 30 years to learn to make it, and the role of someone who makes that brush is they make brushes for the emperor there. Okay, really interesting. And he's the only man left alive in the world. And I said to my husband I'm gonna go and see him and he's the only man left alive in the world. And I said to my husband I'm going to go and see him. And he's like you've got to be kidding me. So I did and went a few times and then it was because he was. There was confusion, it was a translation issue because he's in Kamano town and I went there with my husband and he thought I wanted makeup brushes and I'm like no, I want calligraphy brushes. 60 steps, 50 to 60 steps to make a calligraphy brush. No, because they blend better and there's a difference, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:He goes no but there's other people in this town that make makeup brushes. I'm like no, no, I want calligraphy brushes. So that's where the translation happened. And then it was like trip, two or three happened to be dead. There was this instant attraction between the kids and it was just this moment of you know. There was a family moment where we just, I think, as family, both fell in love with each other because he's got a beautiful daughter and son, amy and Seiji, and kids, and it was so great because there was no english and no japanese and we just sort of hung out for a few days and I just think this relationship started and I think where it really happened is he. It was more his son as well.
Speaker 2:We're like you know, calligraphy writing is a dying craft, not doing craft, but not many people write anything yeah, on keyboards and it was like because you want to keep this exact tradition, it'd be a beautiful way to keep this alive and I went let's do it.
Speaker 1:And that's how it happened and so you've got your, because you've got your travel brushes as well too, don't you?
Speaker 2:this is the my favorite, but then my my most proud moment, which is this one. The reason for the size of it?
Speaker 2:again, it comes down to me not having a steady hand and yeah, it was a, it was a ha ha, it was a aha moment when I was teaching in the class and I had a young nervous boy and it was eyeliner day and he was on a model student and his hand was just like that. I'm like this is really dangerous and I know myself I don't have a steady hand and my daughter at the time was drawing with crayons and I watched her draw and I watched kids draw and they hold a crayon from the back when they write.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kids draw yeah, yeah for it, because it's part of the wrist gives a lot of power and stability. And then I thought what about if I just cut all my old brushes to the exact same length as a Crayola and within a moment, seeing a whole class, I just teared up holding the same kid with a brush, holding it like that stability, and I went. So there's a reason they are shorter than normal and it's for that reason. It's like holding it with two hands. You get this, yeah, yeah. And also you can put your elbow on a table and you can also get closer to a mirror.
Speaker 2:I wear glasses, so having these really long things just knock everything over. So and also upside down, um, so that actually won a good design award. I and I love how it's really simple and clean and and then when you travel with them, like it's just so easy to set up, even how long it takes to put things up and and when you would I say this with any brush, if you do the good soap and water and you wash them properly and do all that. If you've got an old one that's kind of a bit old, just cut it open, so many of them contain mould because it gets into the bottom, this hair that sits in here.
Speaker 2:So hanging them upside down is a really important thing as well. But there's so many things you know, I can't say me anymore. But getting a magnet, getting the balance right, getting um the hairs, we've got this patient hair that's a vegan fiber that has a cuticle. So if you're a hairdresser, we've been out, I've been able to choose how open or closed the cuticle is on the fiber and okay, so they work as well as natural hair. So very proud, this one.
Speaker 1:So are they all vegan? Now, your brushes, or just selected one?
Speaker 2:Ah, okay, and it's something that is probably one of my most proudest moments, because vegan hair I just don't love them as an artist and I'll be rude. They're great for brushes. Vegan hair, synthetic hairs great for liner. Great for brushes, great for lip liner Anything with wet products on. They're horrible with powders yeah, okay some claim that they're good.
Speaker 2:I don't believe that and the reason for? Because they've got no porosity, or I'll call the yeah cuticle. If they someone pick up this, there's a lot of staticness with it too, but what? Or synthetic? Most of them are just straight plastic, but they yeah product, but they also dump it, so there's no control and you can get stuff to flash. This is my highlight of my whole life, this collaboration.
Speaker 2:But what's really great is I've been able to mimic goat hair, blue squirrel hair, the synthetic fibre, blah, blah, blah into brushes, so it works just like natural hair. And I was really excited because PETA you know the World Organization for Animals they did a story on me and and I really believe and I really hope all other brush companies follow suit, and I know there's people out there that prefer natural hair and they get told animal cruelty free and I'm I don't care about the backlash, it's not true, we're told that as well, and animal cruelty is not what people and I and I don't care about the backlash. It's not true, we're called that as well, and animal cruelty is not what people and I and where it really changed. For me it's like well, that's great, because I claim that with my other brushes, which I I love, and there was these rules that we went through that we only could use the byproduct or the part of the animal blue squirrel tail that they, you know, don't use things. And I went and I great, I need to film this process because I've got to be so transparent and I think you should be in this industry and I wasn't allowed to film and this is before I worked with Japan, by the way, this is before this and I wasn't allowed to. And then, when I got to Japan, I said, can you show me the process? And they did, and I went this is not animal.
Speaker 2:And where that line works, where they milk it. It's not fair for the brush people out there that have brains, because they got told what I got told and we got told that, um, blue squirrels get shaved and they get put to sleep, which I was told. I even saw a squirrel farm but complete bonkers that they get sedated and they get put to sleep and they get shaved like sheep absolute lie. That's not what happens. They do get killed. Where the non-cruelty thing happens is they get killed instantly. They don't get their hairs plucked out while they're alive, which is where they get its cruelty free is the animal's killed instantly, which is sure people might be okay with that, and look, you can still make your own decision.
Speaker 2:But I'm like why are we saying it's cruelty free? We are killing an animal to purely some animals purely just to use their hair. They don't use any other part, just for their hair to put makeup on our face. It's like. This is horrendous, and I've never really come out and I don't want to slam any other brands whatever who use that term because I was shown evidence.
Speaker 2:I was shown these mock-up videos. I was taught the same thing. I'm like you know what? What I can do, though, is let's make a hair that artists will love as much as because there was nothing on the market at the time and it's a patent in fibre, and they make wigs out of it. Now, the only catch with it is it's more expensive than blue squirrel. Yeah, it's not cheap, so that's the hard bit for me. For marketing, it's been like well, if it's synthetic, why is it cheaper? Because it's more expensive to buy, to have this hair, unfortunately, um yeah, but this is one.
Speaker 2:The reason I'm most proud of it is because master yoshiki matsu, because he has done brushes for artists and calligraphy artists. Yeah, cheeky brush, but he's never designed or collaborated with an artist in his life and if you go to his house he's. He's made brushes for the world's most famous calligraphy artists. I didn't know this. When a calligraphy artist paints and traditionally they only have to dip that brush once into the ink to create the whole image, so he has to design a brush. Yeah, his brush designs. That's why he's called the brush god in Japan. He has to design a brush. If the artist wants black ink to go watery, watery, to go black, black the whole way through, he's got to have that brush. We filmed how he makes them as well and how he rolls different hairs and different fibres. My goodness, it's just beyond. My goodness. He's teaching his son. His son is taking over.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Again, 30 years of training, so for him and me to sit like that. And also, too, one thing I don't love about a lot of Westerners who take things from the East. They claim it as theirs. No, he asked lot of westerners who take things from the east they claim it as theirs. No. He asked me to collaborate with him in japan, which for me as a wester is such a huge honor. So this is, and this is only meant to be, for japan. He wanted to do it just for japan, as a thing for him, and I asked him would it be possible? I could get some, and he did send me some. That's why it's a limited release. So that's my okay.
Speaker 2:My most proud and proud and proud is that released, it's released. So we've done the first okay, drop, um, we've just got a final, very small tiny drop left. Once that's gone, it's gone. Some of these shapes, some of them, I'll be moving into my existing range, but some of them can just be exclusively for japan, because that's the agreement I had with Master Yoshiki um, yeah we've got our both our names on there, so amazing yeah that's a big honor for me are you in Mecca?
Speaker 1:yeah, in Australia, yeah, yeah, yeah amazing and that's again not cute.
Speaker 2:They're incredible. They're just such an incredible entity to be a part. And what I love about yeah, when you travel overseas, so many of the big department stores look up to mecca like I. You forget, being in australia, how big mecca is globally. It's iconic to so many incredible department stores that we think are really mecca's the best in the world. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome, I didn't know that. Wow, that's great. Can we have a quick chat about like favourite products?
Speaker 2:that you're loving at the moment.
Speaker 1:I prepared. Oh amazing, I love this.
Speaker 2:Definitely for control, absolutely Okay. So I'm going to do them really quick and randomly. These are my favourites at the moment. I'm obsessed with Violet's lip balm. It's a blurring balm yes, it's so, I love it. It's like that blurred french I was gonna stick on my mouth. Now it's my personal one. Yeah, like it like to be. I love the blurriness and the hydration of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, second they do, they do give a blur to, don't they? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one Just try it and the colors are really beautiful. So that's my personal obsession. I've got some weird things here. This is my absolute obsession. And this man I met him, nicholas from Allied Skin, this sunscreen. Now it's not in Australia yet, but for all the beautiful black models it's a clear sunscreen plus.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, allies of skin you can buy in mecca, but, um, you can't buy a sunscreen because we're different. Tgl okay, but under makeup it doesn't peel. And I was working with south sudanese girls the other day for heart foods and I just got this out and they went first. They went thank you for putting sunscreen on me went, of course, and, oh my god, why is that so? It's? I don't do sponsorships, but everything's from the heart, but that is Allies of Skin. The sunscreen for, like, darker skin tones, okay, body I'm obsessed with Elle Effect to tan someone.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's a temporary tan yeah it's just the best colour on all skin tones. I used it on that bass in Kuwait last night Even someone as pale as me normally. Then the colour's wrong because I've got no undertone. Amazing, Elle, I'm going to call you here. Elle, can you do one that's not shimmery as well? Just letting you know, I would personally love that. The shimmer's incredible.
Speaker 1:The shimmer really evens that skin tone incredible okay and is there. How many is that?
Speaker 2:just come in one color, one color that I know. I just bought it. I went and got it. Um, I like to support brands. People think I get, yeah, all this stuff and like I like to support, and then else amazing, I'm not sure there might be another. You know it's called medium, so maybe they're okay, medium, cool, but it's amazing. Yeah, but the most natural tan, what there's a great. Oh, there's another story.
Speaker 2:This I cannot have. If I don't have this in my kit, I don't function. So it's a vein sickle fate. It's just that cream. It's the most hydrating cream but it's burns, psoriasis, eczema, um, okay, those rose like sensitive skins. It just calms. I've never had a skin where this doesn't. I've had girls turn up with a burn. I had a recent girl who walked into a pole on her way to the shoot and it was open and it was so sore and I didn't make up it. Sunburn, it's just that cream. It's on the um. I've checked it out on the psoriasis and eczema website to be used on children. So it's one of those things.
Speaker 2:If you've had surgery and you go, I've got to put something on. So I've been sick, but I get, I get no pain. They should, yeah, send me like I should have this for life. It's in therapy company, but this is my absolute go-to product, something, one of the things I was gonna show. I got some weird things in my kit too. Do you want me to show you not weird, yeah, things that I well? Yeah, I'd love that. Okay, so I do. I get these from. These are like these stencils.
Speaker 2:They're like eye socketing but they're really good in a hurry. Oh cool, yeah, and you get different shape for eyes. I got them on um, I think like a two dollar. Oh, in japan they're like a. In um it's called a hand, some tokyo hands, they're like two dollars and they're okay. Five million different shapes and they're just really good for like, even for editorial eye shape. To get things symmetrical. I'm not good with like symmetry is the hardest thing, but they're really okay. I'm not gonna pretend I do everything by hand. I don't. This is remember these from the old kent set at school. You put it oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, what I do, protractor, that's it. I, yeah, I blunt in the ends. That's not sharp and you put makeup pencils in that and it's really good. If you want to create shapes or do something even, that's genius, right, just to get something even, or to get a curve or a curve or a circle around it, oh, I love that and I also use this when I'm doing makeup.
Speaker 2:It's a good tool. Like, say, for example, someone wants really high, beautifully arched eyebrows. They've got a really short forehead. I always teach about breaking the face into thirds. It's really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like third, middle of brow, nose, nose, yeah, and if one of those areas are shorter or wider, it does change how I do makeup.
Speaker 1:Now, most artists do this instinctively but also have to teach it.
Speaker 2:But it's not like a tiny forehead, but you're wide. A high brow is going to make this wider and this shorter, so I use that to teach as well. And then one thing that I just probably the most important thing I'd put. It's duroderm, and it's recommended by dr natasha cook, a lot of the big dermatologists. It's a silicon sheet which, if you had, oh yeah, scars, but it's a thin one and duroderm is, I still think, every dermo I speak to say it's one of the best pharmacy one sheet and they're different skin tones as well, by the way.
Speaker 2:Someone cuts themselves or has an open wound? Um, it just holds it together and the way it helps and heals scars is amazing. So I have that for emergencies and, really important, every color skin tone band-aid. In your kit I have this five different shades. It's such a great brand. It's called true color sells it at Woolworths. There's okay, at Woolworths. I've never seen these color in your kit. I have this five different shades. It's such a great brand. It's called True Colour.
Speaker 1:It sells it at Woolworths there's okay, at Woolworths, I've never seen these.
Speaker 2:And again, it's just something that we should all have Random. These are these really ugly things that they used to bring out to learn how to do lash extension and eyebrows, but sometimes I have them to sketch out an eye shape because they work like skin. But if I'm yeah, this is weird. I thought I'll show you some of the weird things and the other weird thing that's changed my life. So I go to will here's a plug for you will at eyeballs in paddington. But anyone that has bifocals do you wear bifocals, vanessa?
Speaker 1:no, bifocals are in my, in my near future. Okay, well, if you wear bifocals, like I do where.
Speaker 2:So you watch anyone with bifocals as a mate. You know who they are because when they talk they go like that if you're close. We do that all the time. So I'm doing that to find things or to do makeup, because that's where my focus point is. But then I look down to talk. So what I? What he did for me, it was my idea. We reversed it. So my makeup glasses, the focus point, because when I do makeup I'm like genius, makeup like that, and talk to people. And now, with the bifocals upside down, I said can you? It's great.
Speaker 2:So when I do makeup, I'm at this angle. That's my focal point. When I talk to people, I can just look up and look normally, instead of going like that up my nostrils all the time. Every makeup video I'm like that. Then I'm talking to people and I'm like that. It looks like I'm just being angry all the time. There you go. Oh, and the other weird thing KY Lubricant. It's great for skin shine shelters the skin for shine shelving, yes, for sunburn. Mix it with blush, makes it a bit hot and sweaty and it's really good for okay skin and very few. It's just glycerin, so most people don't react to it so there's a.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got a million random things, but they're kind of yeah, that's great, my current- faves, can I ask you about the one that you pop on wound?
Speaker 1:yes, the silicon tape. Yeah, in what situation would you, would you use that on the face and go over it? When would you use that?
Speaker 2:We had a girl that walked into a pole and cut her face open and a big hole and I thought, okay, well, the poor girl doesn't want to miss out on this job, but she's got the most amazing skin and if I get to it right now and put a silicone, silicone heals scars and wounds incredibly, I mean there's a whole argument whether you can't put them on if it's too open and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:But hey, it protects it and because of the skin tone I was able to put it on there. It was a still shoot. Videos is harder I just know that once she's relaxed, it's the best thing I can do for her skin at that moment. So it's she hits the dot.
Speaker 2:I've already started to do the right process, because it's when her skin's open or if you've just burnt yourself, the chances of scarring. You know, if you're on a shoot and then someone's like no, and then you put makeup on it, we're told to do that.
Speaker 2:Or you know, that's that moment that you know when the way you treat an accident or an in straight up is really yeah. And if you've got a medical recommended surgical tape that you can just even on their body or blisters on their feet, you can put band-aids on it, but this is like a wound healing. If you've had a cesarean or surgery, this is what they recommend a scar after surgery. And I've seen like on my daughter. She had a big cut and they're being a model too. You know anyone. You don't want them to have a scar. I put it on her cut but I accidentally missed oh no, didn't miss it. She's actually peeled off part of it, the scar underneath this, and you wear it for four to five days, if you can. Um, the part that's left out is bright red. The rest is 99 skin tone tone. Wow, it's that good.
Speaker 1:So a really good thing.
Speaker 2:Just, you know, against taking care of someone. It's like, oh, you've got to. What do I do? I'm not a professional, it's not. You know. You can't ring an ambulance for someone cutting their face or whatever. Most doctors will, just, you know, put a bit of tape or say, go home and toughen up where you can put that silicon tape on there, really, I mean there's gels as well, but they don't work. I mean, gel is the other thing that you can do. But also it's just nice that you're protecting that skin if you can retouch that right. I did use this on a um moving image, but luckily this was close to her skin tone. You can get another skin tone. Can I cut it really small and on video you can't even see it. But you know what would have been harder to try and cover a little wound that you can't cover, and I don't want to be putting makeup in an open wound, so yeah
Speaker 1:it's a really good thing to have yeah, uh, earlier on you mentioned that you had. Is that you've got two girls working for you? Is that two assistants?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've got them part-time, um, I have two one for social media, because it's a different mindset, so I get the imagery I know what I like and then she is really good graphic design. So someone with graphic design is really, she's an artist and she's amazing, um, and she just creates beautiful imagery for me. But I I really feel like you know, know, that's the area I want to focus as a creative, that's my strength and that's my lane, and social media is such another world.
Speaker 2:I'll still spend, like even today, even as I'm being here, this lights the phones going. She'll have 10 different versions and crops and she'll go. I love this. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:And finding someone who tastes exactly like yours is really important. Yeah, it's easier. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so, yeah, so she does that for me, and they're both amazing artists. So if I have a job on set, they'd come with me on that, but I would. You have one person, but I broke up over to two because I think as an artist too, because they are both artists, I want to support their careers, and I had an amazing girl before as well, but she was my big kick is helping people go and become who they need to become.
Speaker 2:And jobs being all over the place. It was easy for me to have two part-time that we can move around, yeah, so, but it's really important to have someone that can make your job easier. So, the socials I can't take full credit. Like I choose what goes up there and, and you know, the makeup is, yeah, that I do, but, yeah, having someone that's not my strength. I know what I? Yeah, yeah, I know what I like. Good at knowing how to create what I like visually.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the socials, If someone's listening and they want to assist you, is that something that you still take on another All the time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, all the time. And there's a few things that I'm going to put into that now, like when assist, okay, having a car does help because locations move. Yeah, having a bit of experience, like you'll come to set and, honestly, if you've never worked with me before, your job will just be organization, being quiet, keeping it clean and just being very quiet in the background. It's not a teaching moment, um, because I'm there being paid to do a job, um, but yeah, I do. Yeah, insistence on all the time and it's like you know it could be 4 am start. The car thing is only, I mean, you don't always have to have a car, depends on the location and just patient, yeah, because you know my job can be friday at 5 am, but on thursday it's moved to sunday at 2 pm.
Speaker 2:So the flexibility I do have a big waiting list but it's interesting, not many people. When you tell them that a lot of the jobs that you do you don't get paid for, um, their hours are crazy, there's no overtime, um, you know, it's just the way it is and a lot of them that sort of a lot of people don't want to do this job, which is great because it leaves room for the people that really do.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I do definitely take on assistance for sure okay, and is it best that they contact you or your agent?
Speaker 2:or it's great when you do, and sometimes in me it's there's no system, so what will happen? This is what I love. I love agency absolutely. But when you go to the agencies really important tip there's a lot of great artists in the agency and you might want to assist anyone, but anyone in fashion. Don't write hi, my name's Jo and I want to assist an artist. No, that they won't. They'll ignore it because they get that every day, all day. What you want to do is hi, I really love the aesthetics of Ray or blah blah blah or co-hair. It's work and what I love blah blah. And we just want facts. I have a car, I am a hairdresser or I can't do hair, but I'm great at organisation or I've got OCD. I'm great because we want to hear organisation, because that's the main thing. Yeah, I'm hardworking. I'm blah blah blah. I've assisted here before. I've done this before.
Speaker 2:You don't have that much experience. No, no need to respond. That's the key. No need to respond. No, you're really busy Then, every so often, that no need to respond is like great, because I'd love you to respond that's going to stress me because I don't even know when my job is and how most my assistants happen is. I've got a job Thursday six models I need someone. I'll go and have a look through my so constantly. Just being gently present is a nice thing, hi, I'm yeah based in Sydney.
Speaker 2:I'm great at nails OCD. I have a car, I'm free this Thursday and it's just. And that's how every assistant who ever has I've taken on as a full-time role with me has always got their role. Email the agency, email me direct, absolutely not a problem. Photo is great because I'll get 10 Samantha's I don't know who's who. Photo that's good Because I get these great where I remember I live in America. I live in America and you. So just something you don't need to respond to what can you bring to the table if you don't do hair makeup, whatever? Are you OCD like, what can you do on the day? And you've got to remember you won't be allowed to do makeup on the day. They're paying for me to do the makeup, but you can just be there and when you're on that set, be a fly on the wall and don't be loud and don't pull your phones out. And what I always say first thing, offer whoever just to go through and help clean their kit, because, one, you know what they use. Two, you know where things are.
Speaker 1:And three, just make our job easier is really good yeah, that's great advice, right, this has been a fab chat. Thank you so much. We've just talked about some really great things. I think that will help artists that I don't know. I just think that aren't spoken about, but are really, really important.
Speaker 1:So, thank you so much, thank you for talking about how you still have fear in a job. I think it's really great to hear those things and you know not great to hear it, but you know what I mean. It's great to share our experience.
Speaker 2:It's the way I am and it's never got like I thought it honestly would change. And being nervous. I think I love it because I care and I think I'm really really good at what I do and I think the nerves do also come. I'm not naturally. I don't have that natural ability, and that's also people listening. I'm not the kid that drew art at school and I wasn't that person who can paint. I failed art at school. I still can't. I don't do my own face charts, so I feel like I had to work a bit harder to get the same result. So that that bit of push and nervousness because I honestly know, know deep down, I don't have that natural hand, so things don't come as easy as I think that's also the surgery on my hands that also causes a bit of issue, like if you're waiting for the anxiety to go?
Speaker 2:absolutely it's, yeah, okay, go and watch. Go and watch the Dior and I documentary. It just brought tears to my eyes when Raf Simons was called to head Dior for the women's. He's been many a menswear designer. He got called to design for the biggest house, the one. There's a moment where he crossed because he just doesn't believe he can do this and it's like that's raf simmons, you know, and okay, so many of us are like this and so many others that I talk to are exactly the same.
Speaker 2:So feel the fear and do it anyway. That's what, what you know. It's a famous saying.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, thanks, ray, pleasure, vanessa, we're going to do part two.
Speaker 1:Definitely Thanks, thanks, definitely. Part two. Thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.