The Makeup Insider
The Makeup Insider is a fortnightly one-on-one podcast exploring the life and career of makeup artists, hosted by freelance mua Vanessa Barney.. Finding your community of other likeminded mua’s – the creative, artistic, talkative, flexible, adaptable with a good eye for colour kind-of-people, can often be daunting. Like, where do you start? The Makeup Insider is designed for just that. To build a collaborative online community of artists to build their confidence, connections and help drive their career to the next level.If you’re just starting out or have been in the industry for a long time, tune in now, check out the key takeaways in the show notes and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Find Vanessa @vanessabarney @the.makeupinsider
The Makeup Insider
Brisbane to Paris: Stoj's Journey to Celebrity Makeup Artist and Insights from Working with Pat McGrath
Ever wondered what it takes to ascend to the top tiers of the makeup industry? Join us as we sit down with Stoj, a makeup artist whose 22-year journey spans continents and couture runways. From her humble beginnings in Brisbane to the high-fashion scenes of New York and Paris, Stoj’s story is a testament to passion, resilience, and the power of seizing opportunities. She candidly shares how an inspiring encounter with the legendary Pat McGrath became the launchpad for her career in high fashion, emphasising the importance of confidence and serendipity in shaping a successful path.
This episode is a goldmine of insights into the makeup world:
- Featuring Stoj’s extraordinary experiences working with Pat McGrath's team in Paris, tackling the rigorous demands of 32 shows per season, and transitioning from body makeup to working with top models.
- Stoj also reflects on the camaraderie among renowned makeup artists.
- The strategic moves for securing a US visa.
- The bittersweet decision to leave Pat’s team for new horizons.
Whether you're an aspiring makeup artist or simply fascinated by the beauty industry, Stoj’s journey offers invaluable lessons about dedication, teamwork, and the pursuit of one's dreams.
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Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-round beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals, to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick, and if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy. Today on the Makeup Insider, I'm joined by the fabulous makeup artist Stoi. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to hear about your story. Yeah, I can't wait to hear. So I just love for my guests just to sort of talk about the kind of work they do day to day and what's been happening in their life sort of recently.
Speaker 2:Before we get started, yeah, well, I've been makeup artist for 22 years. I like started off actually in Brisbane and I was just doing um, you know, I was so obsessed with the supermodels so I was always like wanting to I don't know just get into makeup somehow. That was you makeup somehow. I always say if I was 13 now I would be a TikTok sensation. I didn't know that then, yeah, but no, it started in Brisbane and we did model tests and I met George Anthony. So he's a massive photographer in Australia, worldwide. He's amazing.
Speaker 2:So we worked together way back then and then I moved to Sydney. I worked in Sydney for about seven years doing so I do fashion, beauty, celebrity, more celebrity in the recent years, because I was doing a lot of high-end fashion and editorials and then the celebrity would contact my agent and request me for, like you know, the Emmys or the you know those kind of the SAG awards. So that's how I kind of moved towards more celebrity land, which I feel like the industry has kind of moved that way a little bit too, because you know, celebrities are all now on covers rather than the supermodels.
Speaker 2:And then I moved to New York because I wanted to work with Pat McGrath. Oh cool, yeah, I started doing shows with Mac actually because, um, when I moved to Sydney, I I just randomly, I just got up and left. Like I feel like throughout my whole career I've just gone for it and haven't had a plan b. I was so confident in myself that I just did it. So I went to Sydney and I was like I should probably get a job too, you know, because I just thought I was going to get an agent. We know that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:So I worked at the Mac counter in Paddington when they had the pro store, and so from that I messaged the American team and asked them you know, if I flew myself to America, could I do fashion week shows? You know, I don't care if I don't get paid, like I was. So, you know, just wanting to do it. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So, um, I got on their team and then I reached out to Pat's team uh, pat's manager and um at Streeters. And yeah, that day I just messaged him and said, hey, I'm in New York. I've always wanted to work with Pat, I know, you know, this is my book. By then I had an agent. I've worked in Sydney for like six, seven years, so I had a and then, um, he was like okay, you know, we'll let you know.
Speaker 2:And I actually that same day I went to a show with a hairdresser friend and I think it was like Donna Karan or something backstage and Pat was doing the make-up there. And then, you know, I was just excited to be backstage and seeing what everyone was doing. And then I actually got up and it was the end of the show and I had a bit of a fight with a friend and I went the opposite direction to the direction I was supposed to go home, and then I saw Pat standing on the street by herself, which anyone that knows Pat, she's not walking on the street, she's in a black car or on a scooter getting to another show. So I think the show must have been around her house. And I just went up to her and I just said this is who I am, I love your work. And then she was like okay, she's like I'll say are you going to Europe? I was like, yes, I am going to Europe.
Speaker 2:Actually, for the shows Wasn't, but I just had to be there. And she saw my car and she goes, okay. And I said, actually I spoke to Michael this morning and and she goes, oh okay. And then she goes, all right, we'll, we'll see how it goes. And then, yeah, I got to Europe and she asked me to do a couple shows to see if I was available.
Speaker 2:so and that's how it all began. Yeah, and actually that season Pat did more shows because Charlotte Tilbury was pregnant, so she was doing more shows and needed more people, so it just all worked out.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing because, yeah, like by meeting her in person out the front and actually just having the courage, I suppose, to go up and talk to her as well. That's what I mean.
Speaker 2:Back then I did. I don't think I could do it right now, especially that I know everything about her. There's no chance I would go up to her now. But I mean, obviously I've worked with her for, oh God, years and years, and years and like she's passed on clients to me and then eventually I signed up with her agent Streeders in 2015.
Speaker 2:But you know, I've changed agents now, yeah, yeah, because back then streeters didn't put anyone on. And then that one year they put on about four of Pat's assistants that obviously had been with her for like 10 years or so, so that all happened at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I want to know more about that, but I want to know from. I love detail, so I really want to know. So you started in Brizzy? Did you do a course or anything?
Speaker 2:um, I did. A basic thing was like once or twice a week. It was like a Napoleon course. It was like six or eight weeks, right, um yeah, but I mean I feel like I knew a lot more than what I was getting taught but you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I don't know, I was just, I'm, I feel like I knew a lot more than what I was getting taught. But you know, yeah, I think I don't know, I was just so, I don't know, I kind of sound self-taught but just yeah, I didn't get to assist people. I assisted first, assisted when I got to Sydney, okay, like Dottie, and then even Ray Morris. Right, if you spoke to Ray now she'd be like, yeah, I don't know how she got to New York, I was so green, like I just was so determined to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you did your Napoleon course, I think I. What year was this? Was this early 2000s?
Speaker 2:I think it was 2001, 2002.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think I remember these Napoleon Napoleon courses and then you said you worked in Mac. But did you work in Mac or anything in Brizzy?
Speaker 2:no, not at all. I just got up and left because I had um a book, because George and I had worked together oh, that's right, yeah, um, how long.
Speaker 2:It's probably maybe a year that we worked together and so we had, you know, like a, I mean I thought, a pretty strong book. I mean I'm sure George and I, we both agree I mean it was so good, though, working with George, because we just we had so much fun and that's like we both talk about how that's like our best days, like our favourite days of like, you know, and you're learning so much. But from that book Portfolio, I just went into Sydney and I went to a few of the agents and back then it was DLM, yeah, because I assisted, yeah, a few people and then eventually I got signed to them. It wasn't long, it was maybe a couple of years, so it's kind of short, you know, yeah, and just from there there, yeah, I don't know, I just worked at Mac, yeah, the Mac Pro store.
Speaker 2:I mean I was bad at selling product. I mean not, basically, someone would come in and be like, oh yeah, I think I need this powder, blah, blah, blah, and I'd get the cream blush and be like, no, you, you just need this one product, do it here, do it here, let alone, I'm done. So my sales were low and they would be like what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, she doesn't need that and you don't need a brush, just use your fingers.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, oh my God.
Speaker 2:I'm the worst saleswoman ever.
Speaker 1:So that would have been in like the early 2000s. And MAC does amazing training too, don't they? Well, I don't know if they still do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Mac are so amazing and, like you know, they have a senior artist and then they go overseas and they do all the shows and they bring it back to australia and then you do all the classes. So, yeah, that's the good thing about mac they really teach you all the trends and it's not just this brand. I mean, back then those brands were a bit oh, not Mac, but other brands were quite old school and were not you know where. Mac was always that company that you know brought the trends to the people and they, you know the formulas. They were always redoing formulas with some of the older brands. They just had their one product which worked, but they weren't, you know, reinventing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and MAC was all. Yeah, they seemed sort of edgy and more fashion-focused and yeah, I just remember when I first went into a MAC store I thought it was amazing.
Speaker 2:So good, I know.
Speaker 1:So how long did you stay at Mac?
Speaker 2:for just a few years yeah, I think it's only it wouldn't have been more than three years, maybe two years, and then I kind of went casual anyway, because I was doing, I got signed to the agency and then, um, yeah, I just worked there. Even when I was signed with the agent, I still went in and did, like you know, like a Saturday every month because I just want to hang out with my friends. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. That's the one good thing about the industry. I've met so many amazing friends, even on Pat's team. My best mates are from Pat's team and they're all amazing agents. You know artists you know Kira O'Shea's in London, lottie Stannard, rocky Corzette's got like his own brand now. Yeah, aaron, who used to do Madonna's makeup, now Wendy Wendy's doing Madonna's makeup. So, like all amazing friends there, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:I mean, since I've moved to Sydney, I have met some really lovely artists, some really really nice, helpful people. It is good when you've got your makeup artist friends. Yeah, so you've got your first agent, DLM. How did you go about getting an agent? Did it just sort of happen organically? Was it on your radar, Did you oh?
Speaker 2:it was definitely on my radar.
Speaker 2:Was it on your radar, did you? Oh, it was definitely on my radar. Yeah, I was like, right, I've always been good at writing my list of what I want and just going for it. Yeah, no, it was to get an agent in Sydney and then from there. Yeah, it was, but when I was assisting, I just wanted to learn from them. I was so excited to learn different products and what are they using, and you know, I just wanted to learn. Yeah, and that's the thing like I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Like everyone said, you know your day job, but it doesn't feel like a job to me, like every day is such a fun or every single day in my life is a different client. It could be fashion, it could be celebrity. I could be on a plane to Mexico, like with a whole new crew that I've never met before, so just meeting new people as well. Um, yeah, no, it was definitely. And then, after being in Sydney for ages, I had a whole. I manifested, I did a whole list. I wanted to work with Pat Noel Garland. I wanted to, you know, have all these things like Italian Vogue cover. Like I had an Italian Vogue cover, but it was under Pat, like I did the makeup but it was under Pat, but still to me it's like a tick off Pat, yeah for sure, yeah, but just yeah, and I wanted to do all the shows. And then, yeah, being on Pat's team, we were doing like 32 shows a season, so it was a lot of shows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot just being on that team, not even with Pat, it's just also all the other makeup artists you know the best in Paris that are there doing the demonstration and just seeing the way they speak to other artists and assistants and being like, okay, not just like okay, this is a look. But then the ones that I loved that did the demo were the ones that were like, okay, the designer wanted this ethereal. You know they gave us the story of what the designer wanted. So then when you're doing the makeup, you know that it's supposed to be ethereal. You know it's not just putting on makeup, but there's a story behind it. So they were always the good makeup artists that you know. You know said exactly what the designer wanted, not just like, okay, you're just one of the assistants.
Speaker 1:Like they got you involved in it yeah did you ever do hair oh yes, the dreaded hair.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hate saying yes, but I did have to. Um, yeah, back in DLM days. Um, yeah, I mean I would do like edit, like back then it was like Cosmo and Cleio and you know you do a quick, you know but those I kind of did it also for the tear sheets and I had my credit on there so I could get my US visa. So the more I did that I had a credit, yeah, because you need a whole pile of them to get a visa in the US.
Speaker 2:I see yeah, but even when I got to the US, I remember I used to do Macy's and they would want me to do hair and makeup. And I'm like, because it was like the beginning, you know, I had to hustle, I had to work, so I was like I just did it and they would always be like, oh, stui, you do the best hair it's, you know loose and you know carefree. I'm like, yeah, because I don't know what am I doing, like I knew what I was doing but I just put tongue, dirt, sea salt, you know, shake done Aussie style. And they would always be like, oh, we love your hair. And I'd be like what about my makeup? They're like we love your makeup, but your hair you just don't, you know, because I just wanted it to be loose and go next door.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, but I stopped that once I got to. Um, yeah, stop that after a while, you know. And then I was like, no, just makeup, like I didn't come here to do hair, and hair is such a different, I mean, it's a whole different thing yeah, and also, you know you're dealing with African-American hair.
Speaker 2:Um, you know every hair is different, so sure you have to really specialize in that area so when you're in sydney, you're with dlm.
Speaker 1:Were you with any other agency while you were here? Um, no, you weren't. You are now not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm with the artist group now but no before that, no, it's just dlm, and then I went straight to the us.
Speaker 1:So you went to the US, was that, um, after you'd met Pat on the street? Yeah, it was six months after. Okay, so let's, let's move up to then. So you, you ended up in Europe. Was it Paris, did you say? Yeah, and you worked on her shows and that was kind of the beginning of being on her team. Yeah, can you explain what it means to be on her team?
Speaker 2:I feel back then it was a major thing. I feel like now it's a little bit easier to get on Pat's team. Yeah, I might be wrong, but oh God, yeah, it was so hard to get on her team. But you know what?
Speaker 2:I started off doing body make-up and I remember the girls at MAC used to laugh at me and be like, oh, I would never do body make-up. No, I'm not doing body make-up. Why am I there doing body make-up? And I was like I don't care, I'm going to do whatever I can. And guess what, when I was doing body makeup, I had time to sit there with my kit set, bag ready to go, and I would sit and I would look at what everyone's got in their kit and I would look at, you know, the demo and look at how she placed models with the makeup artist. And then when she finally got me and said, do that makeup and it's always like when it's halfway through a show, you know like getting ready. And if I wasn't taking you know all those notes in, I would have screwed up majorly, but I remember it was like Dolce Gabbana and she was like, right, do that makeup.
Speaker 2:And I did it. She goes okayabbana. And she was like, right, do that makeup. And I did it. She goes okay. And then after that, she you know, I finally kept getting models. But, um, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I think it was a good thing to do body first, because I had the time to really look at the product she was using, to get it ready for my kit for the next season, because that was probably probably two seasons of body makeup. Yeah, I remember later on, um, when I was on the core team, she would always yell out my name for body makeup and I would go to her main like personal assistant and be like Kathy, why the hell am I still doing bruises? She's because you're the only one that covers them up properly. Okay, okay, because I was like what the hell? Have I not like proven myself? But she goes? No, because you're the only one that and I noticed like some of the people would make the bruises orange I'm like what? And I'd always go over them and with the mac and uh, mac full coverage foundation and go over it. Yeah, yeah um.
Speaker 1:So when you say a season, um, what's a season mean?
Speaker 2:so you have, like um, the, you know, like the summer collections and the fall collections. Yeah, you have two major seasons, the ready-to-wear seasons. So one will be in end of, well, one will be september, end of september going into october, and then the other one is february, going into the beginning of march.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, there are two seasons and then, but where? So where are the shows for that? Is there, like different cities that you're traveling to?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, for those shows so it starts off in new york, and then there's london, which we never in when I was with pat, we never did london. And then there's London, which we never when I was with Pat, we never did London. And then we'd go straight from New York to Milan and then Paris.
Speaker 1:Okay, so four cities? Yeah, Okay, cool. And then how many sort of shows did you do per city? Did it just depend on which shows Pat was?
Speaker 2:doing. Yeah, it just depended. It would always be around 30 shows in all the all the cities, but then sometimes we'd have like Louis Vuitton, they would send us down to Rio and we'd do a show at a museum there, or, you know, you get in different countries okay, so just really could change.
Speaker 1:It just varied. Yeah, okay, and when you're on Pat's team, does she organise all your travel and all that kind of thing, or is it up to you to get yourself there In the beginning.
Speaker 2:it's up to you, and then eventually, if you're in the core team, then she did, she paid for the hotel and, yeah, the flights, et cetera. You have to be there.
Speaker 1:And how many people are in the core team. Is it very.
Speaker 2:In the core team. It depends on the city as well. Okay, I feel like the core team it can be, like the main ones would probably be about 10 and then it's 10 and 15. But like there's people that have worked with Pat for 20 years, yeah, and they're still there. Like, like there's people that have worked with Pat for 20 years yeah. And they're still there, like I haven't done shows for a while, but yeah, they're still all working with her.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And how long did you go on to do that? For how long were you?
Speaker 2:I think it was like 2009 to about 2015. Okay, yeah, yeah. So then when I joined Streeters, they were like, oh, you can't really cis pad anymore. And I was like what?
Speaker 1:Oh, I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was annoying and I kind of regret stopping that. I mean, I know you've got to listen to your Asian and you know they want to put you in the right direction, but I do kind of regret stopping it. But you know they want to put you in the right direction, but I do kind of regret stopping it.
Speaker 1:But you know, okay, like you would have liked a couple more years or something, or just stopping it entirely.
Speaker 2:I'm popping in and out, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah. So when did that? Did you say you got repped by streeters in 2015?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think 2015,. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and where were you based?
Speaker 2:then New York, New York. Yeah, I was in New York because I moved to New York 2009, yeah, okay, so you've been in New York for a while then.
Speaker 2:Actually, no, it was the beginning of 2010,. Sorry, I started with Pat 2009 and in 2010 I moved to New York because I was already getting my visa stuff ready. I didn't tell anyone because I didn't know what the process was, if I would even get it. So I was like because when I said I was moving, everyone was like what? Because I hadn't told anyone what I was doing, because I just figured, oh I don't know with this visa if I would get it. Like I don't know.
Speaker 1:And then I got it and I'm like, okay, bye. Do you know if what's needed for the visa back then is still what you need now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. So you just need a whole heap of tear sheets you know, credits, core sheets with your name on it, and then you need about 10 people in America to write you a letter to say, yes, we all employ her and how amazing she is, blah, blah, blah. But you get the lawyer to write those letters. And then the client yeah, ask your clients or you know people, to sign it and yeah, okay. I mean, I'm still doing it every three years.
Speaker 1:I have to do it. Oh really, so you have to get your clients in the States or in New York?
Speaker 2:They write you the letters yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every three years it's like another $10,000. Yeah, a little bit of money. I mean I could have got a green card by now, but I just figured no. But then it's like a worldwide tax you have to pay. Oh yes, all those little things that go with it yeah.
Speaker 1:So tell me about when you got signed with Streeters. Did that sort of like change, like put you in the direction you wanted to?
Speaker 2:go in.
Speaker 1:Like how did that?
Speaker 2:work for you. I mean, I had a great agent and we clicked well and she kind of teamed me up with a hairstylist, joey George, who's incredible and one of my great mates, and yeah kind of pushed that way and we did amazing stuff, like I did interview magazine and all those you know fun things, like there's cool editorials that have you know w a magazine, v magazine, like all those things I had on my list, wish list and um, so I did all those. But um, yeah, yeah, it was good and I was traveling everywhere did you?
Speaker 1:you just seem very confident. Did you ever feel nervous? Not?
Speaker 2:really I feel like I actually feel nervous now. Sometimes I'm like what has happened to me in my older age? Um, no, because I just was like no, this is what I want to do. And also, I think, looking at my childhood and because I grew up on a farm and my parents worked like dogs and then when my mum got to retire, she got sick and passed away. So then from that point and I was about 23, then, like when I started my makeup career and I was like that that's not how my life's going, I was like right, I'm, I'm on a mission, I'm like life's too short, you've got one chance and I'm gonna do it. And I didn't want to be stuck in like Australia, stuck in a mortgage or anywhere, like stuck in a mortgage, and then I could never afford to go anywhere.
Speaker 1:You know because.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to be tied down or in a marriage or something like. You know that I felt, you know I couldn't do anything. And, yeah, a lot of people didn't like the way I kind of was going in that direction. But I was like, no, you have one chance at this. And I really wanted to do it. And you know like I was so obsessed with Italian Vogue and the supermodels and all those things when I was growing up and then I realised, oh, this can actually be a job. And then in the end.
Speaker 2:I actually worked with Naomi Campbell for about two years, travelling with her.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Tell us about that. How does that happen?
Speaker 2:She's really good friends with Pat, yeah, but I didn't get her through pat. I got her through renee garns, who was an incredible makeup artist in new york, and, um, we were doing I remember that show, um, god, what was it called? The face, yeah, yeah. So I was doing nigel barker, the the male um host, and naomi, you know, because we, we all talk back, you know, in the back.
Speaker 2:And then Renee was like rang me up one day and she was like can you do me a favor? And I went, no, because I knew what she was going to say. I knew she was going to say can you please do Naomi? I was like, nah, she goes, please, I need a day off. And I was like she's going to hate what I do, like she's going to be like no, and then I ended up doing her and then, yeah, because I just did it super quickly, like backstage, because I thought she's going to hate what I'm doing anyway. So I actually was not nervous at all because I just thought she's going to hate this anyway and probably do it herself. And she came in she goes. I'm pleasantly surprised. I was like, oh, my god, backhanded compliment, but I'll take it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and then she asked me to do a makeup again. I said, naomi, I can't, renee's your makeup artist. I'm no, I'm no, you have to. You know, you've got Renee. And then, renee, I called Renee and I said, hey, this is what's happened. She goes no, please, you can take the jobs, because they always work together for a couple of years and then have time off. And then she goes no, it's fine. I was like, okay, well, just so I'm letting you know. And then from that, yeah, it was good. But you know, I didn't steal the job from Renee. I was like you know what I mean? It was like one of those things that like, yeah, it's cool, you always go back to Renee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you say you were traveling, you traveled with her for about two years what do you?
Speaker 2:It was mainly New York, but there was a couple of things like sorry, you were going to ask a question.
Speaker 1:No, that's all right. I think you were going to answer it, so you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was like a jury line that wanted her in Dublin.
Speaker 1:We went there.
Speaker 2:So we did a couple of days there and then when I was in Milan doing shows and I would go and do her for, like you know, she'd be going to a charity or like a Givenchy show or yeah, and then when that happens, does your agent do?
Speaker 1:they just organise all your travel and that's all organised for you to show up.
Speaker 2:That's why you pay them. The commission, yeah, because even like some of the Sydney artists say, oh, how do you get all your images I'm like, from my agent, that's their job? Oh, but I asked and I never get images. I'm like, well, you're gonna have to ask again, because that is the agent's job is to, um, to get those images for you too. You know you're paying them. You know you've got to remember. I think people don't realize if a client comes to me and says, okay, I want story, um, so the agent is getting 15 or 20 percent. Whatever your agent takes from you, then they're charging the client another 20 percent. So I think a lot of artists don't realize that their agents charging the client as well. That's why a lot of clients want to go direct with you, because they don't want to pay that extra client fee on top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:All those little things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you got with Streatus were you doing photo shoots and all sorts of different things then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was mainly editorial and advertising. It wasn't so much celebrity. But after, like I remember, I did a Porter shoot, porter magazine, and then Julia Garner was on that and then she asked for me, like for other you know advertising jobs, like she did a Motorola job in LA and they flew me out to do a makeup for that or, like you know, for an awards show. So that's how the celebrity.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of going in that direction yeah, and you said that you were working on the face, so a tv show, yeah, so you were just you were looking after the main. Yeah the host the host.
Speaker 2:That's it. I couldn't find the word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so have you done a lot of that kind of thing in your time?
Speaker 2:No, that was the only show. Oh no, actually that's a lie. I did the Face and then I did the Voice in Australia during COVID. So I did Rita Ora for the Voice for one season, so before I came back to New York. But yeah, I love Rita, she's good, she's good fun.
Speaker 2:So when you were looking after Rita, like when it comes to the make-up, because I'm just trying to think she sort of does fun stuff with her make-up- yeah, well, the season I was on, we did fun stuff because she wanted there was like this new generation section added to the voice and so she wanted more. Like you know, euphoria, the TV show Euphoria we did lots of cool little things so I got to have a bit of fun with her. But Rita's always up for fun things to do with make-up. You know, when you do Rita's make-up you've got to be quick, super quick, and that's being on shows and being organised your kit organised helps in that situation. I remember yeah, it was the finale and we were supposed to produce like, no, there's only time for a quick change into the next outfit. No make-up changes, no, no hair changes. But I saw the dress she was gonna put on next and I was like, hmm, so I put this blue color. And then, yeah, I had all these colors out. I'm like, oh, just in case, I don't know. And then what had happened?
Speaker 2:We had seriously like two minutes to get dressed and go out, and and she goes, I want an eye change. And then she goes, what about this blue color? And I had it right there ready to go and I just slapped it on, changed because I had this shape, and then I just put it over the eye or a little bit underneath and she goes. I knew you could do it. I'm like, oh, you're testing me, girl. But that's the thing is being organised. If you can, you have to kind of. I always say this to assistants as well yeah, you have to know. Like with Pat, I had to know what she needed before she even thought of it. So in the line-up, you know, you always have, like you know, even a brow brush or like a bit of powder, or like a tissue or q-tip. And I remember always being there going here, because I remember she asked for a brow brush one and I was like there, and then she's like, oh, and then she picks up on that.
Speaker 1:So that's, you know, being a good assistant is knowing what the main makeup artist needs before they even know, just like be, ahead of things yeah, um so, having that blue on standby, knowing what Rita needed before she needed it, I know I was like, and then I remember Ray Morris was doing, uh, jessica Malboy and Rita go.
Speaker 2:Uh, ray was like how the hell did you do that? Oh my god, I don't know myself.
Speaker 1:And you said you assisted race.
Speaker 2:I know. So it's nice to yeah, to be speaking to everyone. Yeah, because there was a little crew of us backstage, so everyone especially like, what did you use there? Like they had this glitter. Oh, my God, I've gone blank with the glitter. What brand it is? Oh, it's an LA one. Oh now I'm going to hate myself for not knowing it, but it's like a paste. You can buy it at Scobbies and it's like a glitter paste and you put it on.
Speaker 1:How do I not know?
Speaker 2:the name of it. Oh, now that's really going to do my head in that I've forgotten. So you don't get the fallout, no you don't get the fallout because it's like a paint, yeah I think I know what you're talking about and my friend lobby actually did a collaboration with them is it lime something? Lemon something, oh yeah, lemon lemon head, oh lemon head sorry lemon head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that saved me, and because even ray was like how, how don't you have fuller? I'm like here, this is a pot and then you can mix in your clothes with it, because you know, oh, so you just make, you just mix your own colors. Well, you can, well, I, you know you can put a pigment, like, in it as well, but they do have different colors. They've got pinks, green, blacks. Um, you know the clear one, so the clear one, I would, you know, mix some pigment with. But, um, yeah, all those little little things that help.
Speaker 1:I mean, I god, I used to be so obsessed with searching the world for different products and, like in pat's team, we would all go shopping together, like in paris, like for the makeup stores yeah, because everything's so much more accessible now, isn isn't it with the internet, and you find things online on Instagram, whereas it wasn't that simple, not then, no, no, Now do you use assistants now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Yeah, I have all. I used to have one of my favourites, riley, but then she moved to London. She had a baby, but she's actually gone to assist Mary Phillips over there. Okay yeah, so she's doing well, so that's good. You know they do all the Kardashians and everyone when they're at the shows, so she's doing well. And then I've got a couple in New York the regulars, but yeah. And then in Sydney I've got a couple of girls too, sarah and Chelsea, that I use all the time. Okay, cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what are some like give me the do's and don'ts of assisting, like what do you? What are some of the hard no's, like the just don'ts that you've maybe come across?
Speaker 2:It's not even. It's like when you're assisting someone you can't be. I've seen assistants be especially like people that have come on pat's team but just, for example, and they are so loud and going up and talking to the client. It's not your client to talk to you know, or getting the client's number, or here's my number. You know You're an assistant. That's the one main thing. Also, you know, just making sure that everything's clean, like clean, organised. Yeah, just be ready. Be ready with like body make-up, like things like that that you know you don't think, oh, retouching, you'd be surprised at how clients and photographers really appreciate you doing body make-up, you know, because it makes it a lot easier for you know, but then sometimes, if it's a tattoo or something they're like, don't worry, it's easy if we retouch it.
Speaker 2:But I always ask anyway for clients but yeah, just be ready, have an organised kit, like when we were doing shows. We would do three shows a day and we'd be running from one and we wouldn't know what half of the team would have to go to the next show. So it's just having you know those, you know having pallets. Yeah, just organise your kit properly, be super clean, just all those things, because you don't know like we're running. We had to quickly pack in two minutes and jump in a van to go to another show. But yeah, just be. And also, when you're assisting, be mindful, be aware of your surroundings. Like don't be having a conversation about something you know, just watch what you're saying.
Speaker 2:I think that's the main thing. It's like oh, sometimes I've had to go over the years like, hey, get me a coffee please yeah yeah, but I know also, when you're assisting you get so excited about things and you get chatty and you know, just be mindful of you know what's going on around you.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. What about phones? Phones Like, what about? I think, because, like the time we, the day we live in now, you know everyone's on their phones. Is it acceptable for you, for people to be on their phones Like what's your feeling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I mean as long as you're working. I mean, while everyone's getting content, the photographer, everyone's doing it Back. If I was, if you brought it, you couldn't bring a phone out when I was assisting pat I know they do now and pat was like tag me, tag me. But um, when I was assisting and if I brought a phone out, pat would be like are you a photographer or a makeup artist? And it wouldn't even get to that because you would be off the show. I've've seen a couple of people like they would be their first time being on a team and they've had the phone out and they never saw them again. That was the last show they did. Yeah, yeah, I mean. Yeah, I think now it's more and more like I'll get my assistant to film me doing the makeup. So, yeah, it's definitely more acceptable now Everyone's on their phone. Yeah, I mean, as long as you're doing them the work you know, yeah, yeah, and you're not just looking at your phone.
Speaker 2:Also, the client now wants that. The client wants you to like. You know you just have to. Every client's different, because some clients are not even yeah, I wouldn't yeah, and then clients you could. Yeah, you've been working with them for long enough that you know and they want to be tagged or it's definitely like a new client I would not bring a phone out for and kind of see what everyone else does. Yes, just kind of sit back for a bit, ease into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly um, do you do you? You said you don't do shows anymore. Is that you're not doing any shows now?
Speaker 2:I mean I got asked to do a couple like to lead shows. But the thing is now, unless you're a Pat or Val Garland, even with them, you have to put in money yourself. I've been asked to do major shows in like London and I didn't do it because they wanted me to pay for my team, my assistants, all out of my money. So it would be like $20,000 of my money going into someone's show. Or they want you to get a sponsor, a makeup sponsor, then they take the money. So then you don't even have that. Make it sponsored to pay for your team.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, so that was a hard no for me because I'd have given up. I've done so many free things over the years, like thousands and thousands of dollars of free things and I'm like you know what? I'm just. There's a point where you have to stop yeah, no, I understand so. I'll just take an advertising job for five days instead. You know, I mean like, yeah, I just like I need to be a little bit smarter.
Speaker 1:Like yeah no I understand um, do you like? If someone I know, like a lot of people, want to get into doing shows and with you you met Pat and that's amazing have you got any recommendations for them how they could go about getting on some of the bigger shows?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I tell my girls in Sydney I was like, just reach out to all the big agents, streeters, management artists, the war group, art and commerce, art partner, reach out to all the agents and keep bugging them. I would email every day. I was like Michael, I know I'm doing a head in, but I want to be on this show. Yeah, okay, yeah. So I just kept emailing and then you know, send them off your link, just like, hey, I love this person's work, I've admired them for so long. This is my work, just so they can get a sense of you know your, yeah, level of makeup that you do or what kind. And then, um, yeah, just send them an email, keep bugging them, okay, that's what I was wondering for an answer.
Speaker 2:It's still the same like with those agents. It's like you keep bugging them or actually even reach out to. I mean, you've got Instagram now. You can DM someone directly too, yeah, but the thing is, I've had people DM me and I always forget. So if and I always say hey, can you email like Mandy? Or you know my agent, and I said so she can put you on the list, because then I'll remember it that way, Otherwise I'm doing a hundred different things, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I find things get lost in DMs, do you? Yeah, You're like oh, that person, and then you're like oh, I can't.
Speaker 2:I know I've got an assistant list that I've done now under the saved, so like I'd save it and I put assistance just so I like remember that someone might have messaged me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea, that's good. Um, do you do test shoots still?
Speaker 2:no, not really or more like. I know that's a lie. Yeah, I've done a couple. When I went back to New York last year I did a couple of beauty shoots, but that was a fantastic photographer that I knew was going to get exactly what I wanted. But yeah, no, no, we still go and have fun and then we go and have a drink later. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's not something.
Speaker 2:It's not like a yeah, it's not serious, it's just like come on, come over to my house and we'll do a shoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah and we'll do a shoot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you still do, yeah you still do.
Speaker 2:do shoots Occasionally yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So when did you end up with the wall group?
Speaker 2:How did that transition happen? Well, my agent, mandy. She was with Streeters. So, yeah, I just reached out to her because, yeah, I went from Streeters to Management Artists and then COVID happened and then I came back here and then I didn't redo my visa. And then, yeah, I reached out to Mandy because also it was also I knew she was, you know, she had all those kind of she knew how to work with high-end fashion people, the clients. But then also she was with an agent that is more kind of celebrity-based and I knew that transition would work well for me, going from fashion into more celebrity-based clients.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I reached out to her and, yeah, we had a couple of chats and that was it.
Speaker 1:So you mainly now work with celebrities.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay.
Speaker 2:I mean I still have all my fashion clients that I had before COVID and that's the amazing thing with American clients they're so loyal and they're just so happy that they have you on set. They're like, oh, thank God we got you today. Well, like they're so appreciative and so you always feel good when you're on set. Yeah, it's very different in America, like you'll have the music blaring. You know the models want Dracon or something. You know everyone's having a little bit more fun than Australia's a little bit more serious. Sometimes there's more of a vibe happening in New York. Everyone's a bit more loose and yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When you do work with a new like. How does it work when a celebrity client like wants to work with you? Have they been recommended through somebody else? Have they seen you work? How do you generally get a new celebrity client?
Speaker 2:In the beginning it was like, yeah, like getting editorial jobs and you'd have that celebrity on that editorial and then they would their agent, their manager would reach out to my manager and that's how that would happen. Or yeah, like um, or they would hear it's word of mouth. Yeah, I had like, I know, I was like I'm looking, you know charlie xcx or whatever it's like she's blowing up now. And then she asked for me in australia last year and I just moved to new york and I was like, oh god, I'm like, do I just jump on the plane and go and do a makeup? Yeah, but yeah, I had just moved to new york and I'm like, no, I need to like focus on here. But I was like all those kind of things, you're like, damn it if it, if I was still in Australia.
Speaker 1:You'd be doing that job, because I suppose is there people that you see that you're like oh, I really want to do their makeup, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I'd love to do a lipa, yeah, okay. Or Miley Cyrus, it's like I would love to be with a cool girl that's. You know, you're travelling, you're doing the tour with her, like I think that would be kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Is there ways to make that happen? Like can your agent pitch to them?
Speaker 2:Is that how it works? Yeah, they do sometimes if they've got the contact. But I always like write up a list and be like hey, these are, you know, just in case this pops along, just so you know I would love to do that person. But yeah, I don't know, sometimes I don't know. I mean, I always wanted to do Rita as well, but it just kind of out of luck that I was in Australia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it happened. So I know you've been back in Australia. But when you are working sort of full-time in the states, what's a week look like for you?
Speaker 2:I mean, I suppose it's very varied, right, if you're traveling or um, or if you you know what you're doing well, this is the thing in the states is that, yeah, I went through a stage of I was on a plane, oh God, every second day going to Mexico, going to LA, and then I'd be in the middle of the night. My agent would be like right, you have to go back to New York. Or like that was hectic days, and not so much now With the celebrity base, because it's not just celebrity. Now we're dealing with, you know, influencers and you know TikTok stars and everything. So everyone needs their makeup done, because it's not just celebrity. Now we're dealing with, you know, influencers and you know TikTok stars and everything. So everyone needs their makeup done. So it's not just you know, front rows.
Speaker 2:There's so many events in New York. There'll be a Tiffany event, I did the Skims event and did Georgia Jagger, so you know there's always some event in New York like some major event. So everyone always needs makeup. So sometimes it's like last minute, like hey, tomorrow can you go do whoever I'm. Like yeah, sure so. But also like it's like in Australia Some months it's busy and then sometimes I'm not even I'm working, like one day a week. You don't know what it's going to be like.
Speaker 1:Did you ever do weddings?
Speaker 2:You know what I did a wedding a couple of years back. But, no, ian. You know what. I said no to a lot of weddings and looking back I regret it now. Yeah, because it's like okay, why wouldn't I do a wedding? But mind you, when I people ask me, then I my schedule was really busy then so I couldn't yeah. And another reason I would say no is I don't want to disappoint a bride, because my schedule it's so last.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be like doing a trial and she's excited to do her hair and make-up and then at the last minute say no, like that would be to me. That's horrible. So that's another reason I kind of did it, when you know freelancing like that.
Speaker 2:But you know if I was I don't know, in Australia it might be different, but in New York I just I don't know. In Australia it might be different, but in New York I just I don't know, because in Australia, I mean, you can block yourself out for those things, but I'm always yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose when you were here were you travelling as much Like is there as much travel?
Speaker 2:when you're based here. It's just yeah, no, there's no travel? Yeah, no travel at all. That's why I'm like right back to New York back to New York.
Speaker 1:Back to New York. Yeah, and we were going to chat about um set etiquette, um backstage etiquette, sorry yeah, well. I think.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, we kind of went over just then. We've kind of covered it yeah, I feel like you know, just make sure your kit is super clean, have it like all super organized. You know, just make sure everything's in a palette, um, but you know, same thing, don't be on your phone when there's a hundred models that need to be, you know, done, or just you know really listen and take note of every detail and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for those that don't like, have never experienced a fashion week. You know being backstage. Can you walk us through? You know the process of what happens from the demo and how, how it all works like that. Yes, does pat do the demo?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, no, no. So pat doesn't do the demo, she's got too many other things. She's got about 50 people. This is another thing. People would always be like, oh, but pat doesn't even do makeup. And I'm like if he knew all the work and stress she's under and she's gotten to the level where she doesn't need to do the makeup like she has these amazing artists.
Speaker 2:So when, okay, so you're going into the demo, you go backstage, um, they'll put you where you need to be seated because you know you have your core team up the front and then everyone else and I'll do a demo on one of the models, and then you go back to your station and then you know, normally there's a one of their managers or bookers will come and give you a model and then it gets super crazy. Then everyone jumps in. You'll have like five people on one model. You'll have three hairdressers, two makeup artists and manicurists under the table. So it gets hectic. I remember, yeah, you'd have like all the top end models, like Natasha Poli and everyone coming in last minute and then you'd have to, like bleach their brows. Do you know? Face tape full-on. Do like Galliano days that we did makeup? Yeah, and you'd have to do that in like 10, 15 minutes with bleaching the brows. Wow, yeah, it was a lot Like Margiela. Oh, all those. Yeah, they were amazing days, but with the adrenaline it's like fun.
Speaker 1:Now, if you're bleaching brows, have you got that in your kit? Yeah, yeah yeah, or is that something that they've always had? I love a bleached brow. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It makes the eyes stand out. Brows change everything. Yeah, even we would like bleach, or I would bleach brows. And then I would do like a light, you know tint, like it wouldn't. Yeah, okay, I would do like you know a pastel pink brow, you know just a color, or, but it changes someone's fate. Like brows are so important. And now you know, I've drawn mine on but I've lost my brows recently. So it's been fun. But I always used to bleach my own brows anyway, because I used to have pastel pink hair. Then I would, yeah, so I would bleach my brows then. So I love bleach. Give me a bleach brow.
Speaker 1:How did you like when you are going to all the shows and you're saying you've got to pack up quick and everything, did you have your kit condensed down to quite small, Very small yeah?
Speaker 2:So we'd have the basic foundations that she would normally use and then, yeah, the concealers, but then you'd have certain brow pencils that you would normally use and then, yeah, the concealers, but then you'd have certain brow pencils that you know she liked, yeah. And then, you know, when it came to the actual looks like those Galliano days where you would have the applications or looks there would be like 26 different looks for one show, so you would have to learn the 26 looks. And then, whoever you get, you've just got to go oh, okay, it's that look, but they would have the pigments and all those other products. So you would have all the base stuff, yeah, and then they would give you all the pigments and blush colours and a little you know content yeah, anything that's specific to that show.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you didn't have to like make it up out of your kids somehow yeah, and a lot of, a lot of shows are sponsored.
Speaker 2:um, because back then you know we had like cover girl sponsor, or I'm sure you know pat sponsors our own shows, or you know she'll have her product there, or you know you'd be on a chanel show so you'd have chanel product, or do you all do? You all would have yeah, and and that's oh God. Now I'm like, oh, I remember those days Dior would give you a big, massive bag of makeup as well at the show. So, dior, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Dior's amazing.
Speaker 2:They also and the models. They'd give models a free pair of sunglasses. Yeah, I guess they got the press after because the models would walk out with sunglasses on.
Speaker 1:So they got the press. Yeah, yeah, who inspires you makeup wise? Now Right this moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, where do you go for your inspiration? No, makeup artist. Okay, no, I look at things like I'll go through. You're gonna laugh at me. I'll, like I'll go and pick up a book full of birds and like colors of birds and the way nature like flowers, how purple and yellow always goes together. Or like a parrot and how their colors come together. Or flowers, um, what else I? When I'm in new york, I love going to museums. My friends and I, we always like, okay, saturday morning let's have brunch and go to that museum, or there's always something coming up. Or like street art, like you know, especially when I'm traveling, like I'll go to mexico and you see all these colors and or a picture. Like you know, especially when I'm travelling, like I'll go to Mexico and you see all these colours or a picture of a you know, a wall that's painted and looks old and that's what inspires me.
Speaker 2:I don't look at other makeup artists' work anymore. I haven't in a long time actually.
Speaker 2:I feel like before I used to always look like early 2000s. I would look at Peter Phillips, val Garland, pat I love their work and I love back then Peter Phillips did all these crazy like camouflage stuff on the face or he was really out there back in the early 2000s. And then he's got a contract now. But yeah, he was full on and I used to love looking at his work. So, yeah, but now I just I feel like if I look at other artists' makeup without knowing, you start to copy it without even realising. Yeah, okay. So that's when I stopped and I'm like, oh, hang on.
Speaker 1:You know not that I was copying anyone, but I was like, oh, I think that you get too influenced with other makeup artists' work and with your kit. Now are you like have you got quite a condensed small kit? Do you carry a lot of stuff?
Speaker 2:What does it look like? It's very condensed. I mean, I look at my kit and I'm like you know what? There's probably about at least seventy thousand dollars worth of makeup in there. You know, when you look at a palette, right yeah, and you think, okay, so a Tom Ford. I mean I'm getting given a lot of stuff now, so it's not like I'm going out buying it anymore. But in the beginning you spend so much money on your kit and then you realise in the beginning you're like, oh, actually I don't need that, I need this other stuff. Like you know, especially when you're getting taught to like use this product, use it, and half that stuff you never use. No, it's very condensed, but I've still got a big Burton bag. It is big and I love a Burton bag because it's got like skateboard wheels so you can just trek it in New York. But then I also have another massive Burton bag with all the creative stuff. So, yeah, it's still pretty big.
Speaker 2:At least one big suitcase that I take as a general thing to clients for shoots. It depends on like I'll try and ask for a brief before the shoot so I get an idea of what I'll need, because there's no point taking all my creative stuff for a shoot. That's, you know, like an advertising, natural. But I still have in my basic kit like, um, when is it the makeup forever, is it the flash? Yeah, so I've got that to mix something up quickly, yeah, you know, yeah, there's those little things that I always have in my basic kit because you know it's the metallic, the gold and silver and then all the other colors. So someone asks something, you're like oh, you can quickly, you know, do something pull some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do something. Do you condense your foundations? Do you put them into separate, different, smaller bottles?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah you have to. I mean, look at those charlotte tilbury and like pats, they're so heavy, even like, uh, gucci westman, I'm like your product's so heavy, even like Gucci Westman. I'm like your product's so good, but it's so heavy yeah yeah. And then makeup artists they should know better. Yeah, what is?
Speaker 1:going on. Yeah, they are. I'm just thinking about the blushes with their lid. They just look so beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's like a magnetic thing, so you put them all going different ways. But no, I just close so beautifully. Yeah, and it's like a magnetic thing, so you put them all together in different ways. But, no, I love all their products. Yeah, so I just have, like you know, the little Muji bottles. Or Daiso I love Daiso, it's a great shop, yeah, yeah, it is great, yeah. And then Vucet, you know, vucet, yes, and then my friend. Rocky, so the brand's Corzette and he has great palettes and great brushes as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool. Now you've told us a lot about your career.
Speaker 2:Have you got sort of some career highlights that really stand out to you? Career highlights yeah, I feel like all of it's been good. I mean I love doing like interview magazine and then yeah, w and all those things, because from Australia I never thought I mean I had it on my list to do but I didn't think it was actually possible. Because to me interview was like, you know, it's the coolest magazine, so to do that was like yeah and just like travelling with so many different people and meeting so many amazing people Excuse me, yeah, I didn't like. And the shows to me, being on Pat's team and the shows, that was like the biggest thing and being, you know, just having the agents that I've been with Like I never thought in a million years that someone from the Glasshouse Mountains in Queensland would actually get to be, you know, with these massive agents that hardly put anyone up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, that's great. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:A great achievement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I had it out there and looking back I was like was I naive or was I just super confident? I never had a plan B. That was my thing. I was just like if I only got one chance, why wouldn't I? And I would always say look, even to my assistants, I'm like look, just reach out to the agencies, just say what can they say no.
Speaker 1:Like that's the worst that can happen. Yeah, yeah, or not get back, but if you don't? But if you don't, then you won't know.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, if an agent doesn't get back to you, it's because they are slammed with the actual artists they have. But keep emailing them because they will eventually get back to you or they'll pass it on to their assistant and the assistant will, because if they keep seeing your name on that email, they will respond yeah, I think that's the thing, isn't it you?
Speaker 1:just, I don't know if it's having a thick skin, I don't know if what's the right thing is, but and it's not even rejection. I think sometimes it's what goes, what goes on in your head, sometimes like thinking that, oh, they haven't got back to me, they mustn't want me, but there could be a million reasons why someone doesn't get back to you Exactly, and being an assistant, that's the thing you do get into your own head.
Speaker 2:I've been there, I've been the assistant and you're always like oh, did I not do enough? You know, was that brown not?
Speaker 1:done right.
Speaker 2:You know blah blah. It's not like if someone drops you, if you're doing fashion week and say there might be 50 models, right, and they've got the team ready, the night before John Galliano might say you know what, we're cutting it down to 30 and that night before you'll be dropped at 11 o'clock for a six o'clock show. It's not something you've done, it's just that, the model's got.
Speaker 2:You know, the designer decided to get rid of half of his collection because Anna Wintour came through and said she didn't like half of it, like these are the reasons why. So I mean, I used to my friends and I would all be like, oh, did you get on that show, did you not like? Why did we not get on it? And then now I know, because I've been in this situation where I'm you know this is why it's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the budget got cut okay, yeah, yeah, and I think anyone's thinking about us as hard as we think they are. Does that make exactly yeah, yeah yeah, like you know, if I've assisted you, for example, and I go, oh my gosh, maybe I gave her the wrong shade, I don't know, you're probably not even thinking about it.
Speaker 2:I am not about I'm thinking, yeah, after the job I'm thinking about, am I having a spicy margarita or a coconut margarita? I'm not thinking about. Oh, she didn't lift the pencil up and do it like I'm not thinking that at all not thinking about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, um, can we talk about a few kit favorites, like what you're loving in your kit right now? I also foundation wise or anything.
Speaker 2:Foundation, I mean, my standard is mac face and body, because you know I am doing a lot of advertising so a lot of the models have like clear skin. So you know, yeah, I do love charlotte tilbury's hollywood filter. Yeah, I love that even if I just add, you know a little bit certain spots. Um what else do I like tom ford the stick foundation.
Speaker 1:I love that oh yeah, is that the traceless, or is that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, but there's traces in the's in the bottle. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:What else NARS always does? Great shades, especially for darker skin tones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're, like you know, the standard ones, I guess yeah. And have you put them into palettes? Yeah, because the Hollywood filter is so heavy.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, actually. No, that's a lie, I completely lied then. No, because you can't put it in that I mean there's a lady that does it but it's hard to put into. You can buy the mini ones. So when I go back to New York, I'm going to go buy the mini ones for my kids.
Speaker 1:yeah, but face and body, all those are in, yeah, small containers. I was going to say how are you doing the flawless filter? Because it is a tricky one to do no I totally learned about that.
Speaker 2:And what about concealers? Nars, the Radiance, the creamy, you know the ones in the tube, in the wand? Yeah, the wand, yeah. Then I have stuff like I always have stuff like you know, the MAC full coverage. And then I have, you know, just the body work and stuff. And then I've got Laura Mercier Secret Camouflage Still love that. Has that been discontinued? Yeah. So I have to find Arcosis oh, yeah, loving that. So I've been using that one. What else have I been using? I think that's it for concealers. I mean, I'll have like a Makeup Forever one. If I wanted something a bit heavier, yeah, yeah. And then actually there's a brand called Saie. It's S-A-I-E and they've got clean beauty. So if I need something lighter, they're really nice as well. I but, being you know, if I need something lighter, they're really nice as well. I mean, there's so many great concealers and foundations out there.
Speaker 1:I love the tower 28 one at the moment yeah, see, I haven't tried that yet it's. So, god it's. I used to love the bare minerals one and then they changed and I was hunting around everywhere and I've tried the tower 28 one and I really like that one, and is it more like creamy, or is it? Yeah, it's just creamy and I just like the consistency. I really, really like it. I have to try it. What are you going to do about the secret camouflage? Is there any? Have you got any options?
Speaker 2:there, I don't know, just get on to the next product. I need to get over it and move forward.
Speaker 1:Because I've been looking around for that one, because they've got them in the pens now, so I don't know if they're the same colours.
Speaker 2:I mean, before I went back to New York, I went to every Mecca store and I was like right, have you got number? Five, so I've got a couple stocked up. Yeah, okay, they'll be gone soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'll have to be on the hunt for something there. And what about skin prep? Are you? What's your go-to skin prep kind of thing?
Speaker 2:I mean, I always start it with. You know, I always do bioderma and I clean it. I know some people don't like to do that, I always do. Um, I love charlotte tilbury's magic cream. That's a good one. Embrilise you know the basics that everyone uses. What else? Skin, skin, skin.
Speaker 1:There's a product that I see a lot of celebrity makeup artists use. It starts with A oh Aquaphor. No no.
Speaker 2:Augusta. Oh yeah, augusta, bad badder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do have that in my kit as well yeah, yeah, yeah, do you like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I do actually rita was using that, so that's how I kind of got onto that. Yeah, no, that's a great one. Um, what else am I using? Oh, you know what I love um a patchology, the face mask. They're at meta, I don't know it's called like um get dewy with it or like so. Even if I put it on for five minutes, the skin looks so good and I just have like little eye mask as well. But um, the full face sheet, like sheet mask. They're really, really good if you just want like beautiful skin straight up. So you know, and in aust and in Australia it's very like I feel like you don't have as much time to prep the models. So I find that's a really good one just to get some like glow and dewiness and moisture into the skin really quickly. I love Emma Lewisham's Vitamin C oil.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love that I'm like lathering myself, um, but I love working. Yeah, just a really nice oil on the face is really nice too, and then by a derma they've got some yeah, and then like for the lips, I love lano lips.
Speaker 2:That's another australian brand. Um, yeah. And then for like body, I love um. My friend kira, she has a brand called um pro shine and she's done it because you know like, especially in australia or if you're traveling. So it's um in this red little container and it smells beautiful, it's like jasmine, and because you know like you're on the beach and you've got sand everywhere and they're like quick moisturize, you know, and it's like a balm and you just rub it on super quickly and that just gives like the most beautiful shine to the body and it's just so convenient. So for your set bag, that's a good one what's it called?
Speaker 1:what was the?
Speaker 2:pro shine, pro shine yeah and it's like red with lilac writing and yeah, and it's like a clean beauty product as well. Okay, but it's just super easy on set.
Speaker 1:Do you use any of the face tools for skin prep? You know how people use the gouaches or the roller things.
Speaker 2:You know what? I do have it in my kit. Do I use it all the time? Hardly, because you don't have time, even when you're doing celebrities, like I might do a little bit, but you know you need it more time for that and sometimes, like even don't celebrities, you're in there like an hour and you've got to be in and out and you're working with like a hotel little desk and the hair and makeup have to be on that desk together, so I would absolutely love to use more of that or the new face.
Speaker 2:There's just no time I mean unless you're doing an ad job and it's all about skin. Yeah, definitely, but a lot of the time it's like you need more time for that to work. Nothing is going to put it on and oh, it's done. It doesn't work like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, and what about mascara? What's your go-to mascara or mascaras, oh God.
Speaker 2:You've got like all the Dior ones Too, faced. They've got, oh, bed and Sex, that's a good one. Gucci Westmans I've been using. Well, personally on myself I've been using Gucci Westman and Say, but yeah, in my kit I've got Dior. I've even got CoverGirl. I love all the patent brushes. So I know you can't. This is the thing. Like I love those patent brushes and then when you're on set you have to use disposable right, yes, so I found on Amazon.
Speaker 2:They've got those silicon patent kind of disposable ones, so now I can actually use it, because before I would like do a beauty shoot and then give the model the mascara where I'm like. I can't keep giving out mascaras. But yeah, now you can buy those little brushes on Amazon.
Speaker 1:That's good. What mascaras do I like? Do you like tubing mascara?
Speaker 2:What do you mean by tubing?
Speaker 1:Like the Kevyn Aucoin tubing mascara.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, honestly, no, I don't really use it. You don't use it. Okay.
Speaker 1:Because then there's the emco beauty one I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, you're like what's this snake bust? I know what she's talking about. Um, no, I haven't. I haven't used it, to be honest. Um, you know the mascaras that I feel like never get mentioned anymore, that are really good is lancome?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, because they've always been nicer than mascara, haven't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even. Oh, my God, I even forget about them, but they're always really good to have in your kit. Yeah, mm.
Speaker 1:I mean I have to use Chewy Mascara because everything transfers on me. But yeah, as you said, like with a mascara, it's kind of all about the wand, isn't it? So when you can't use the wand on the model or the client, it's a bit tricky.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know a lot of makeup artists still don't use disposable wands, but I just don't want to get sued. No, which comes to get insurance, because I didn't have income insurance. And now I had cancer and I had six months that I couldn't work and there's no income.
Speaker 1:So I'm like, oh, what an idiot um, so let's talk about that quickly with the well, the fact that you've beaten cancer so amazing. Well done, um, I don't know if that's the right thing to say I don't know.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, it's been a journey. Let me tell you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my lashes are gone again, like they left. They started maybe my second or third chemo. They left, disappeared, and then it's been probably five weeks since. No, hang on. Yeah, it's been two months since my last chemo and now they're just going to fall out again. So apparently that's yeah, that that can happen. Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 2:Okay, my brows are back a little bit yeah yeah, and you can't use like all my products that I love using on my face like rationale skincare out. You have to use all like super clean. I was like using qv gentle wash on my body and yeah, so yeah, skincare is the major thing. Like also, I couldn't. I was using my emollition, vitamin c oil on myself and then the doctor's chemotherapy oncologist was saying dude, you can't use any, you can't have any antioxidant supplements and you can't put it on your skin because your skin's absorbing right. So the vitamin c in my skincare, he's like no, you can't use it. I was like what I mean?
Speaker 2:I know as a makeup artist, you know that everything gets absorbed, but I was just like so now, finally, my skin's a mess, but it's getting there, your skin looks pretty, looks pretty good to me.
Speaker 1:You look, it looks great. You're back to New York on Sunday. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any jobs lined up for when you get?
Speaker 2:back. I'm kind of giving myself a little time to get in there Settle in yeah, just because. I think I've been on the Sunshine Coast for a while that New York energy and noise might, you know, might need a little, a little adjusting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah actually I was thought about this earlier how do you get around with your kit new york taxis?
Speaker 2:well, my clients, my agent's great, because she'll be like, okay, you have to pay for her uber yeah so like so like in Australia, they won't do that Very rare. I've had a few times. I mean in Australia also, you're driving yourself, yeah, yeah, but in New York no, because no one's got a car. So back in the day I had to get the subway with my kit. I don't know how my back's not more erect.
Speaker 1:That's how you keep them small, then you can't have it.
Speaker 2:If you've got to um get up on the subway yeah, so mainly, yeah, I just get an uber everywhere, which you know that's an expensive thing. It's like 100 bucks. Yeah, um, yeah, us, yeah, so yeah, my client pretty much I would say 80% of my clients will pay for my Ubers. So you know it takes three months to get paid. You know normally, you know the normal.
Speaker 1:It doesn't take three months to get paid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, God, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least. Oh, gosh okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very rare. Okay, that's what I mean. It's like even in Australia. I think it's, I don't know, no, it's earlier, I feel like in Australia About a month. I find in Australia, but in America, I think. I mean, apparently there's this thing in New York that you have to pay in a month, but no one goes by the law. It's New York, yeah, everyone does it their way, no one.
Speaker 1:Any final pieces of advice for a makeup artist that's like I want to be. I would love to do what Story's done anything. What's your biggest piece of advice?
Speaker 2:Just go and assist people, like you could do a basic makeup course, but I feel like just jump in there and reach out to people, yeah, but just go for it. I mean I feel like now it's so much easier. You've got instagram, you've got tiktok. You've got, like all these things that you can be an influencer, like even trying products. Like you know jeffree star, like look at him, all these people um, there's so many different areas. You can work in film, you can work in in advertising, you can do brides, you can do events. There's so many different areas. I just think you have to have a passion for it, because you don't get paid for a lot. You know, especially in the beginning, you don't get paid for things, even now.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you know editorials. You think you get paid for both. You might get $100 and you'll get paid a year later Like it's not, it's not what you think it's going to be. Save your pennies, yeah, yeah, just go for it. You've got a passion for it. Like don't and don't.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is advice, because even my assistant, I, was like don't listen to some of the artists that have negative feedback. Or like no, no one will put you on. That person won't put you on. But no, just reach out to them and do it your way. Do not be influenced by any negative person. Because even like one of my assistants, she was like you know, reaching. I was like no, you have to do this. Reach out to people. And she goes oh, but someone else told me not to do that because you know it would be annoying. Or blah, blah, blah. I went no, just do it. And then she did it and I gave her all this information to go out there and do it. She goes oh, my God, you're the only one that's pushing me.
Speaker 2:Everyone's like no, don't get on a team, you won't. I'm like no, really. I was like do not listen to them, you can and you will get on a team, write your list of who you want to work with, like your top five, and reach out to them until you get an answer. And then now she's going over, you know, overseas, and she's working there. I mean, you know you're not going to get on every job or you might get put on a whole heap and then they come off, but you, just, you just have to be there waiting, you know, yeah, but just no negative energy, it doesn't happen one year, the next year, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it will happen if you want it to happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you've just got to be there as well. So, yeah, no negativity. Don't listen to the noise. Just if you want to do it, do it yeah.
Speaker 1:Do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, fabulous advice. Thank you so much for chatting with me, and I can't wait to see what's next for you in.
Speaker 2:New.
Speaker 1:York. Oh, me too, insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now. Bye for now.