The Makeup Insider
The Makeup Insider is a fortnightly one-on-one podcast exploring the life and career of makeup artists, hosted by freelance mua Vanessa Barney.. Finding your community of other likeminded mua’s – the creative, artistic, talkative, flexible, adaptable with a good eye for colour kind-of-people, can often be daunting. Like, where do you start? The Makeup Insider is designed for just that. To build a collaborative online community of artists to build their confidence, connections and help drive their career to the next level.If you’re just starting out or have been in the industry for a long time, tune in now, check out the key takeaways in the show notes and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Find Vanessa @vanessabarney @the.makeupinsider
The Makeup Insider
Kat Bardsley's Path from Admin to TV/Fashion Makeup Artist: Overcoming Anxiety and Self-Doubt.
Join us as Kat, Melbourne hair and makeup artist, shares her inspirational story of leaving an administrative job, moving to Melbourne, and diving into the world of makeup. Learn about the crucial steps she took, from gaining experience and reaching out to established artists, to becoming a hairdresser to be taken seriously in the industry. Kat's journey highlights the importance of building a network and addresses the mental health aspects of freelancing, providing valuable insights for anyone considering a similar path.
Managing her Mental Health as a Makeup Artist
Prepare to uncover the emotional and mental challenges faced by makeup artists, from managing stress and unexpected situations to overcoming anxiety and self-doubt. Kat shares relatable stories of navigating high-pressure moments, handling quiet times as a freelancer, and the significance of mutual support among peers. We dive into personal experiences of dealing with rejection, the power of positive feedback, and the necessity of balancing self-criticism with self-compassion.
What we talk about:
Career Transition: Hear firsthand accounts of Kat’s transition from an administrative job to the beauty industry.
Building Experience: Discover how Kat gained experience and networked with established artists.
Becoming a Hairdresser: Understand why Kat decided to become a hairdresser to be taken seriously in the industry.
Support Systems: Learn about the importance of support systems in balancing a demanding career with family life.
Continuous Learning: Kat emphasises the importance of continuous learning and growth within the industry.
Mental Health: Practical tips and heartfelt advice on managing a beauty career while maintaining mental health.
Professional Growth: Insights on professional growth and continuous learning within the beauty industry.
Balancing Act: The importance of balancing a demanding career with personal life and self-care.
Tune in for a rich discussion on the realities of transitioning to a career in the beauty industry, managing the challenges that come with it, and thriving both professionally and personally.
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Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, vanessa Barney, a makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-round beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals, to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick, and if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy. Today on the Makeup Insider, I'm joined by Melvin hair and makeup artist.
Speaker 2:Hi Vanessa, how are you? How are you, kat?
Speaker 1:Good thanks, thank you for joining me today. Yeah, great. Now we're going to be talking some really fun stuff. Later we're going to have some chats about um, the mental health side of yeah being a freelancer. But before we get into that, how did, how did you, how did you get to where you are?
Speaker 2:it took me a while. I was a late start to the industry. So I so all through my 20s I was just working in administration and just an office job. But I always knew I wanted to do something creative and I wanted to be artistic in some way and I just decided to take the leap, sort of left the job, left the state, broke up with my boyfriend and yeah just started a brand new life in Melbourne and yeah went for it. So yeah, went for it. So, yeah, just a whole change of everything Great.
Speaker 1:Because you're a far north Queenslander, like me. Hello, we didn't know each other up there when did you move down?
Speaker 2:It would have been like 17 years ago now. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, cool, I think we've mentioned this.
Speaker 2:We've had very similar sort of like growth paths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, timeline yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I enrolled in the makeup course and I mean I sort of like dabbled with a little bit of makeup um up in Cairns, but there's obviously not much there, um. So I did a makeup course it was a certificate, a diploma and did that. And while I was doing that I did a lot of work experience. So you know, um, people would contact the school and say is anyone available to work experience? And that was my big thing was just to know to get myself out there. And I think also because I was in my late 20s and there were a lot of just other girls who were just out of high school, so there was a huge age difference. So I had a bit more sort of for lack of a better word desperation to get into the industry because I was running out of time. So I kind of, you know, was looking for every opportunity and I saw this as my this is it or nothing. Do you know? This is, I've got nothing else to lose, I've got to give it all my all. So with that kind of determination I was doing all sorts of um jobs like short films, that type of stuff, test, um tests and basically through that kind of stuff I sort of started getting sort of little jobs here and there and I reached out to a few different makeup artists and, yeah, learned pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:If I wanted to be taken very seriously, I also needed to become a hairdresser.
Speaker 2:So I did my Cert 3 in hairdressing, knew I needed to also get some salon time and I was fortunate to land a job where I only needed to work every Saturday and then, finishing the Cert 3, I quickly landed my first drama job. So I did that while working in the salon every Saturday. So that was a hard slog, six days a week doing you know filming hours. And yeah, just, I mean, once you sort of get your foot in the door you're in and yeah, then after a while I realized you know, working those hours was going to kill me and I pulled back and went back into freelancing and yeah so, and I'd established enough in a network throughout the years that getting back into sort of like doing more fashion and or network TV or any of that type of stuff, I had enough connections so I could sort of, you know, just put my feelers out and slowly people realising that I was back freelancing, and then that just sort of built up and I went through yeah, sort of built up my network that way Cool.
Speaker 1:So when you said you reached out to makeup artists like when you were still, I think you were still in school.
Speaker 2:No, I'd just finished and I was sort of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, how did you not reach out?
Speaker 2:to them. So this was kind of pre-Instagram. I think Facebook was just on the cusp so I didn't have Facebook. So there was Model Mayhem was a big one. Oh yeah, weirdly enough, I did a short film and one of the girls on there was at RMIT and she said to me do you want to? You know, give me your name and number and I'll put your details up on like a notice board. This is how far back we're going. Put your phone number on a notice board for the photography students and through that. That's how I sort of got lots of numbers from photographers who were interested in doing tests and stuff like that, lots of numbers from photographers who were interested in doing tests and stuff like that. And then there was another. There was a site called oh, what was it called? It's like a crew list freelancers and I basically went down the list and emailed everyone on that list and, yeah, a few people replied and sort of gave me advice. So, yeah, yes, it was a lot of cold emailing at the time.
Speaker 1:it's great yeah, yeah and so that was a year long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was very sort of condensed.
Speaker 1:Oh, six months okay, that was a diploma. And then you went and did your that was that I can.
Speaker 2:it was meant to be longer, but I was just so determined and I spoke to sort of the school and I said, look, you know, again, I was sort of one of the more mature students and I I knew how I was going to approach it and they said, well, if you think you can, you know, do all the course criteria within this year, then by all means we don't suggest it. At the time I also had a young toddler, but I was just so determined so I just, you know, I think it was again that whole sort of like you know, time isn't necessary on my side. I want to get sort of, you know, waste a lot of my 20s. I need to push through this as quickly as I can. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1:What I remember of it Okay. So yeah, you sort of did. You crammed a lot in in those in sort of probably between the age of 27 and 30.
Speaker 2:It would be around. Actually, more sort of the age of 29 is when I sort of started, so between the ages of 29 and pretty much 35, I crammed in everything. So I had a baby, you know, got my diploma, got my Cert 3, and just yeah, just did it all, yep.
Speaker 1:Because I know I've spoken to a lot of people and they think that because they're going to start I don't know in their 30s, they kind of think that they're too old to start, which I disagree.
Speaker 2:I think you come to it with a different level of maturity and, to be honest, I mean, I don't think I was ready prior to that. I mean, that's just me as my personality.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's like I don't feel like I'm old within the industry, Like obviously some conversations, you know, don't quite align, but I mean, I'm just as immature as the next 20-year-old if I need to be. Oh, you're funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't think coming into doing being a makeup artist.
Speaker 2:Look, no, it isn't it isn't, but I think you know it certainly did feel that way when I was, you know, working alongside 19-year-olds in the course that I was doing. You definitely did see a divide and I guess you see it more in your 20s especially. You know there is a huge difference between a 19-year-old and a 29-year-old. I think it sort of lessens.
Speaker 1:As you get older, the the age gap seems to not be as big. Yeah, yeah it does. I know what you mean. I mean I went back and did my diploma at 35 and I saw a huge difference in between me and the girls. But yeah, yes, and then you went and did hairdressing. That's another thing, that another conversation that people ask you know should.
Speaker 2:I be?
Speaker 1:should I do hairdressing?
Speaker 2:Oh no, because as soon as I got my Cert 3, you know, and then after a couple of months I think not even that's when I landed my drama job, you know, fresh out of sort of doing that. And I'll be honest, I hate colouring Absolutely, just can't wrap my head around it and I'm always open about that. I can apply colour if you give me the colour ball, that fine. Love cutting and styling, so that's my strengths.
Speaker 2:And I also went on to do a barbering course and I found that to be more useful because the amount of continuity cuts I was required to do and you know it was I. Just I do enjoy that part of it and I think it was the smartest move of my career to become a hairdresser because it's really opened up so many doors for me. Yeah, yeah. And I would advise most makeup artists if you really want to get into film and TV that's where you want to be then absolutely become a hairdresser. And I always think it's easier for a hairdresser who's a makeup artist than a makeup artist who wants to be a hairdresser. I think that crossover is one guy, yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did you do the hairdressing under the advice of those people who you emailed from freelance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was actually I, I think you know Margo or Setti, she was. Yes, she was the one who suggested you know hairdressing. Really, I don't think she came out and said you need to become a hairdresser, but she suggested you know, this is you really need to be a strong hairdresser? And I was like, okay, okay, so what do I need to do? You know how can I do it with a young child, like a toddler, and also at the time, you know, I needed to sort of have a little bit of income. So I was doing a few jobs here and there and it was a juggle. But you know, looking back, I made it work and I think that's the thing is like if you really want something, you will figure out a way to make it happen yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, some of the some girls that I've or some you know other makeup artists that I've um, yeah, I know, because I teach my hair course, and one thing I find quite common that people are doing is they are doing the barbering side of things. They're doing a barbering course, which I think is really, really smart if you can't do the investment of time and money to do your SIRT3.
Speaker 1:Because I mean, I'm just sort of thinking I don't know about you, but most of the hairdressing you're going to do on a TV set is men's cuts right. Or a fringe trim.
Speaker 1:That's what it's mainly going to be, so having that, and if you've done barbering, I reckon you could almost manage like you could. You know you'd be. You'd be confident with scissors in your hand. Enough, um, but as you said, like with coloring, I mean, when it comes to coloring on set, it's usually someone who's maybe done salon time and I've managed to get away with never having to colour you know, but cutting absolutely yeah. And I've gotten additional work because I'm a hairdresser.
Speaker 2:You know, and that would be the first question I always got asked are you a hairdresser, can you cut hair? And that would get me the jobs over. You know someone who can't do both. So it's always worked in my favour, so it's always a positive. You, no, there's. You know, in terms of career, what career move. It was not. Not a negative, absolutely. And barbering game changer for me, because being able to do a men's continuity cut within half an hour, you know, so easy. And even doing fashion. The times I've had to pull out my scissors for a quick trim, you know, you just yeah, yeah yeah, especially with men.
Speaker 1:You know, it's not a full haircut, it's just a little trim yes, yeah, just shoots better, did you? So? Did you do hairstyling before you did hairdressing apprenticeship?
Speaker 2:I don't want to say yes, because what I did know back then was very minuscule At the time. I thought I did, but no, I don't think I had great skills back then and you know it could get me by, but I wouldn't say I was very confident. No, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that would have given you your hair skills for hair and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cool, okay. So what was your first TV job? What were you working on?
Speaker 2:So my first drama job was for Wentworth, which was, yes, probably one of my most favourite jobs still Huge learning curve, because I was hired halfway through a season, halfway through a block or halfway through like an episode almost, and it was the most daunting but exhilarating experience and it taught me so much and I had the most wonderful head of department and to this day I have a soft spot for her. She was tough but she just, yeah, she just inspired me so much and, yeah, taught me so much. But yeah, it's still one of my favourite jobs and it was incredible. You know I don't know if you've ever watched it it's pretty violent. So we had a lot of like. It was less about beauty, Obviously, it was breaking down characters and lots of fight scenes and, you know, bodily fluids, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Did you go into your makeup training with the goal of getting to drama?
Speaker 2:So I think originally I wanted to do sort of, yeah, special effects almost, and I did do a special effects course. In between all of that, in between finishing the makeup course originally and doing my Cert III, I think that's when I realised it was a prosthetics course, and I think that's when I realized I didn't want to necessarily do prosthetics. I did still want to work in tv or film, um, but less out of the special effects side of things. Um, yeah, I was still also dabbling with a bit of fashion at that time, but yeah. So then, after a few years of TV, that's when I kind of went time to step out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when you got your job, your first drama job did you realise what the hours would be?
Speaker 2:I did because I had also done short films. So I knew, even though you know most short films would normally be, you know, maybe one day, maybe two or three, depending on what it was, generally it would be a case of, you know, long, long shoots. I wouldn't get paid for these, obviously, um, so this was purely out of love. So you know you'd be in the middle of the desert, or when I say desert, maybe the yu yangs, that's desert to me, I mean 40 degree day, no toilets, you know that kind of like, um, or you know it'd be really cold or wet.
Speaker 2:I think I did like a fashion film shoot and we were in the snow and so I kind of understood somewhat what it was going to be like and I appreciated it. You know it's like, well, okay, I'm not expecting a picnic, I'm not expecting it to be, you know, easy either. So I did have an idea and I you know you've done bits and pieces of I think I just I can't even remember if I assisted. Oh my gosh, it's like a bad memory. This is part of getting old but yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I've experienced enough to know you know what to expect, yeah and you were doing so.
Speaker 1:For those that don't know, tv's minimum drama yeah, minimum of 10 hour days, and you were doing that five days a week. Oh, yeah, yeah Six intervals yeah, yeah, and then on the weekend, and then I was doing that, yeah, saturday hairdresser.
Speaker 2:And the child, and your child.
Speaker 2:Vanessa, I don't know how I did it. I think I had a very supportive husband and my mum was she does, she lives still up in queens, lives in queensland still, and she would come down as often as she couldn't help out as much as she could. Um, I honestly I actually don't know how I did it, because I think now if I have to work three days in a row, I'm like zombified and my daughter's a teenager now. I'm like you have to cook dinner, I think, because I wanted it so much. That's what it was.
Speaker 2:I think I knew this was a golden opportunity. I had to give it my all and I think, you know, yeah, I just really had the drive to do well and make this happen for myself and yeah, and I feel like I'd worked hard and I guess it keeps going back to that. You know, I had to take every opportunity because I felt like I needed to sort of not speed through it, but I just needed to make sure I didn't miss anything this time around, because I it's a weird thing to look back on your 20s and go, oh, you know, I don't want to say I wasted it or have regrets, but you know, things happen and you kind of go well, I could have done other things, I suppose, than what I actually did, but it is. It is what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is what it is. Yeah, okay, so you did, wentworth, did you just do that?
Speaker 2:one season, no. So that was one of the unusual jobs was that they went straight to a third season. So I did that and it was a very sort of. I think the beauty of that was, as you would know, there's not many jobs where it's the same crew that was um. As you would know, there's not many um jobs where it's the same crew that goes on to the next job. So the crew of me stayed on from season one, two and three. So it was a very close-knit crew it was. You know it was basically we were in jail for most of it. So you know, four walls, no windows. You got loony very quickly and it was just a great, great job to be part of. It really was, and I mean, you know some of the most phenomenal actors and actresses. Like it was just a beautiful, beautiful job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then when you finished, um, then I went on to another um series um miss fisher's murder mysteries, which no yeah different head and that was actually a an interesting job because it was 1920s and pretty much every extra we got had to go through hair and makeup. So this was when the when the um hair skills really came in, because 1920s hair but every single male extra had to have their hair cut and there were some days I remember, okay, we had I think seven or eight additionals and everyone was just cutting hair. So that was an incredible job and, yeah, I saw some of the most incredible makeup artists that have been in the industry for over you know, 30, 40 years coming through because it was period hair. You know, whoever they had hired as an additional had to know how to do period hair and I learned a lot on that job.
Speaker 2:That was another incredible experience, yeah, and it was actually kind of fun because I remember one day we were standing there and and it was actually kind of fun because I remember one day we were standing there and it was just, you know, the crew was sort of all in their torn jeans, ripped shirts, looking a bit sort of unshaven, and then you sort of just panned over and there was this, you know, an old fighter plane and you know the actors in their beautiful 1920s gear. It was so surreal just to sort of look backwards and forwards how different it was Literally. Yeah, it was split screen Time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was that just.
Speaker 2:That was actually the last season they did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh, okay, okay, you would have liked some great hair setting and things like that.
Speaker 2:On that yeah, no, it was incredible.
Speaker 1:That would have been great and where to.
Speaker 2:After that, I literally went straight on to neighbors so that started my neighbor's journey oh yeah, um, by that stage I was starting to get a little bit burnt out. Um, keeping in mind I was also doing my hairdressing every Saturday, so I've been working. Yeah, so I was working six days a week yeah and it, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think I didn't last very long on Neighbours, I think I got a term and then I just had to step away. Yeah, fair enough. So I stepped out of sort of that world and, yeah, I mean, I still definitely miss being on a team. I think I love that aspect of working drama. I love working in a team, I love the family. You know, it's just, it is a fun environment. It's a tough environment, but it's a fun environment too and there's lots of good memories from it. And I've had opportunities where you know people have asked are you interested in coming back? I've been asked to do jobs and I've kind of hummed and aahed. Um, I've been asked to do jobs and I've kind of hummed and aahed and it's just. I think now, especially that I've established myself as a freelancer, it's hard to go back to, but I just don't think it's it's for me anymore anyway, like I love doing additional days but I just don't think I can do it full-time anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot so so you stepped out of um full-time drama.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you went back into the world of freelance um, yeah, so I guess I just um, I can't even remember how I sort of I just sent the word out that I was doing freelancing again. I think I sort of you know, always kept in touch with people that I'd met photographers, stylists, that type of thing and I had enough connection with enough people that it could keep going like I could sort of maintain it as a job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't really remember of who I reached out to, but I think, um, yeah, I know, I think I just had enough network contacts that it worked for me yeah, yeah, and oh were you no, it weren't tv at, no so.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say I think I started that after Neighbours, I'm not sure how long after that was. When I first sort of went into Network TV and I think through that as well is when I met other makeup artists, which that's the other thing I love about Network is I got to meet you know more makeup artists through that and I've been at network. I'm still doing network now. I love it, and I've got a few you know shows that I like to sort of do yeah, do um yeah. Honestly, I feel like in a way, it's been a very um, organic sort of um development for me, um how I've sort of flowed in and out and sort of gone where the work is and it's just, it's look. I don't want to just like dismiss the the fact that I do think I'm lucky with my opportunities, so how things have worked out and what jobs I've sort of gotten. I am very lucky and I think I have been in the right place at the right time for a lot of things.
Speaker 1:To be honest, why do you think you're lucky? Have you heard other people who haven't been as lucky like a lot of talented makeup artists out there.
Speaker 2:but, um, yeah, just maybe that's part of like you know, going, am I should I am, I should I be here? Am I good enough? It's like it all comes down to that, I suppose a little bit isn't it Like you go oh, I'm just lucky because I am doing what I love rather than I am good at what I do, and that's why I'm doing it. Okay, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, um, I would like, from my point of view, when you, when you say I, I don't think it's luck at all. I think you're incredibly easy to have on your team and you're great, so maybe, maybe.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's why I think I do like being a part of a team, because I I'm not necessarily a great leader, and I'll admit that, but I know where to slot in and I know how to work well as a team. You know I take direction really well and I think maybe, yeah, maybe, that's worked in my benefit, that I can sort of you know, people see me as easygoing somewhat, so but you're always really upbeat I think I try to be yeah yeah I mean I know I met when we first met.
Speaker 1:We were doing this um overnight job and you upbeat, I was not upbeat, I was dying of um tiredness and you're just like so upbeat and la la, la.
Speaker 2:Oh, I missed you.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, oh my gosh, how is Kat doing this?
Speaker 2:I feel like I want to sleep for a week.
Speaker 2:That was the left one. That's right Now. That's a funny story because I remember driving out of that job because it was in Clues, when were we staying at? A motel, yes, and that day driving out of that job, I remember I literally was pretty much hyperventilating the entire drive, like just stressed out, because I had looked at the call sheet and the additionals that were on that call sheet were some of the you know high hitters of makeup and hair dressing. So I had basically, you know, psyched myself out from that moment because I knew who they were and I knew their work and what they'd done and you know, they were impressive.
Speaker 2:So as I was driving there, I remember just freaking out and I got there early I went up to my room, you know, and sort of like, okay, I'm gonna leave at this time, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And then I saw your car pull in and I was like Vanessa and I think we'd met once before, prior to that, and sort of had a bit of a chat. Anyway, I basically latched on to you choice in this and I don't know I was actually a little bit manipulative, I'll admit to that. Now I decided that we would go together. So I sort of, like you know, suggested it to you, but I wasn't going to go, I just knew I had to sort of share the experience to the next drive, because I was just in such a panic and I thought, if I such a panic and I thought if I go with someone I feel a bit better on the drive there with you, you and I chatted and chatted, and chatted and I think it just sort of helped me just relax that little bit like I've got a buddy, I've got a, you know, because I think we did talk about oh we don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2:What kind of hair are they gonna want? Blah, blah, blah and we sort of you know. Just, I don't know if you were talking to me to get the stress out or I was who was benefiting the most out of that situation, but yeah, I mean, I was probably more stressed because I I think that was my first time ever really working yeah, I wouldn't mind that drama job.
Speaker 1:That was my first drama, but I'd done another day, I think, but I had absolutely no clue of what is that interesting?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's gonna be happening?
Speaker 1:none, yeah, and I was. Yeah, I was clueless and I knew nobody actually nobody and you know you walk in and I mean, I don't think everyone looks at you.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But no one's actually, no one's even paying that much attention. You know and you walk in and you're like Well, I think people are. I mean, you know and you walk in and you're like Well, I think people are?
Speaker 2:I mean? You know, I was doing a side eye to everyone going, oh, what are they pulling out? What are they? How, like you know, oh, which brush have they got? You know, oh, do I look professional enough? That's what I was thinking Like how is everyone set up? Do I look like I actually belong here? And then set up, do I look like I actually belong here? And then you do think are they sizing me up because I think who's this like?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, for me I was kind of desperate to get into the industry and had no idea how. And you know I'm going there thinking, oh, maybe maybe these people like me, maybe I can work with them. It's just, it's a. I mean I actually I do remember it, but I don't remember it that clearly, but I know that I was a lot terrified.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about being terrified before a job To be, honest, I don't think there's ever a moment where I'm not slightly nervous for a job. Okay, I mean, I'm hoping one day this changes. But for as long as I've been doing this, no, I've always got slight nerves Maybe. I mean, look to be honest, maybe one or two jobs I'll be okay with, but the majority of jobs there's always a sort of a little bit of nerves.
Speaker 1:So what are you nervous about, do you think?
Speaker 2:No, I think I'm generally a nervous person and I don't think I realized this until later on in life, but I reckon I've always had a little bit of anxiety, a little bit a lot. And you know, I just thought it was normal and I suppose to some degree it is normal, but I didn't think anyone else experienced it. It just is what it was Like. You know, I just thought this is just part of. I didn't have a label for it, I just thought that this is normal. And then, you know, slowly, I guess in the last say, 10 years, you know, people are sort of talking more about anxiety and mental health and all that type of stuff. And suddenly I'm just like okay, so you know I'm not the only one. Yes, it is normal, but this isn't a, you know, an uncommon thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I've definitely experienced my fair share of anxiety before jobs. Um, yeah, it's probably lessened now for me, um, but my, my, I think, I think I've realized what it is for me too. A lot is I get this anxiety about being late. So then I get all stressed out that I'm late, but actually I'm actually not late, I'm late. Yes, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I'm like, oh my gosh, I want to be there half an hour early and I'm only going to be there 25 minutes early like this strange thing and then, um, I get anxious about I'm not going to have enough time to set up and, oh my gosh, I'm not going to get the model ready in time. Oh my gosh, they're going to come ask me to. You know, they're going to come and say to me how much longer, and I'm not going to, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Just these stupid things and it's.
Speaker 1:It's not really a big deal, but it it was to me, and so then when I I got anxious, I found it really hard to perform thing as well.
Speaker 2:It's like I've got a routine of getting to a job. Is I I have to be about give or take half an hour as well early for a job? It just means that I can yeah, almost you know sort of breathe in the car for a little bit. I find my parking spot, I know I'm here, I know where I need to go, all that type of stuff. And I suppose, do you know, I equated to almost like it's as a freelancer.
Speaker 2:Most jobs, um, are like the first day of high school, because you don't know where you're going, you don't know what the building's like, you don't know necessarily who you're working with. You know who are you going to sit with at lunch, kind of feeling. You know it can't. I mean, if you're lucky enough, you know you're doing a job, that you know the crew, great, that sort of takes away some of that anxiety. But I still, you know, it's like, well, you know what if they throw a curveball at me, or what if something happens, or what if I've forgotten something, the amount of times I've pulled over, and just like, let me check that I've got my brushes. You know, even though I pecked it the night before, it doesn't matter. I just you know I need to do that.
Speaker 2:I've actually this is a pretty big confession I have on a few occasions done a dry run the night before of a job, so I know where I'm going to park and it takes away that anxiety and it actually helps. I'm just like you know what. I'm not gonna freak out because I know I'm gonna have a sleepless night thinking about how am I gonna get to that um, you know studio, or they've given me very specific parking instructions that I've got to go down this alleyway and go up this parking ramp, like okay, well, I'm gonna go. You know, first thing in the morning I can't handle the peak hour traffic or whatever, so I do it the night before, I suss it all out and then I feel better yeah, that's smart really, because absolutely, yeah huge thing.
Speaker 1:You know, because we cut, we cut so much stuff and then you've got to get it to the studio. Um, yeah, that's a great tip, yeah, that's a good one. Um, so would you say your anxiety has eased with time. You still have a little bit of nerves.
Speaker 2:It's managed I think, yeah like you know, I think I've realized that it's gonna happen no matter what, and there's things I can work through. So there's kind of like little little tools that I used for myself. It's like, um, you know, I kind of use like um, it's almost like a milestone sort of way of I think back to a job that I was extremely nervous about. That I did. I got home and it was fine and I go okay, so remember that. And so the next time I'm doing a job and I'm starting to sort of, you know, get all up in my head and my heart's popped with, like you know, pounding, I just go oh, remember that time the same thing was happening but I survived like nothing bad happened. I was actually, you know, fine. So I use that as sort of like a reminder that I can get through this.
Speaker 2:I've done it once before and breathing is a big one for me. I do like little breathing exercises in the car as I'm going, which you can find lots of, I think, the breathing exercise. It took me a while to find one that actually worked for me. So that's, you know, you can just go online and find different sort of methods that work, um, different styles of you know, breathing in, holding it, breathing out that type of stuff, or if the quick breaths or something, something sort of mindful um, you know whether you want to listen to calming music on the way there or listen to a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you ever call somebody? No, no, that's my thing. I don't like talking until after the job. So I think, going there, I okay, I will allow myself to sort of get in my head to a certain extent, but it's more just, I try and just reassure myself and go okay, you know whether it's mentally doing the job in my head. So, like you know, I'm going to set up here, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do it. Okay, I'll start with this. Okay, you know, and then, as soon as that's done've got this, you know, and you kind of just I just um, lay it out my head how I'm going to approach it. So when I get there, it's almost like I've already done it. I've practiced in my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, practice in your mind. Yeah, yeah, um, have you had any experiences like where I don't know, where you have forgotten stuff or where they've changed the brief?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely has that ever happened.
Speaker 2:Let's see. Yeah, I once forgot my glasses. I can't see without them. Oh yeah, I can't see. I can't do makeup without my glasses. I can't see without them. Oh yeah, I can't do makeup without my glasses. So it was beneficial that I get to my jobs early, because as soon as I parked and I looked down and I was like, oh my God, I forgot my glasses. So I had to bring my husband and fortunately he rides a motorbike and I said you need to come to me right now with my glass of my spare glasses, and he scooted through the peak hour traffic and got to me just as I was. I was literally waiting in the corner with all my bags. He pulls up, hands me my glasses across the road and into the studio. It was perfect timing. But but the entire time he was riding, I was on my app watching him going. Okay, why has he stopped? What's he stopping for? Keep going, keep going. Why is he going that way? So the most stressful half hour.
Speaker 1:That must have been high stress for you. Wow, yeah, that would have been. I mean, that would have been high stress for you.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, that would have been. I mean, that would have been high stress for me as well.
Speaker 2:I'd be like, oh my God. But there's also been other jobs where, you know, they asked me to do a sleep bun. So I did, you know, beautifully gelled down, not a hair out of place, and then they said, took a couple of shots and went you know what we want it out? And I went okay, and just you know, sort of quickly processed in my head how we can do this, and we took the hair out, we sort of made it a bit more wet and sort of movement through it, and that was fine, it worked. But those things always, you know, things like that happen and you just kind of have to roll with it a little bit. I definitely have become better at thinking um on my feet at sort of situations. Um, yeah, yeah, oh, do you know what's interesting? There's another story.
Speaker 2:Um, this was quite early on and I'd done a fashion shoot and I was just doing makeup and someone else was doing hair and they had a wet look, like a wet hair look, and they used baby oil and it was so beautiful and smooth and glossy and lovely and so cut to. A few months later I was doing a short film and I just was telling I had another makeup. There was another makeup artist working with me and we were both, you know, pretty new and I was telling her about this shoot and I was like, oh, you know, they used baby oil for this wet hair look and it looked beautiful and blah, blah, blah. And then I forgot about that conversation. Then we were filming later into the night and it was extremely cold.
Speaker 2:I think we were in the Dandenongs and we had it was a short film we had an elderly actress and she had to be wet and like as if she'd just come in from the rain and I was sort of quite mindful. She was, you know, she was cold, she was miserable. And the other makeup artist said to me why don't you use your baby oil technique? And I was like, why don't I? And so I did. And it was just like, oh, thank you. And she's like well, it's your story, like you told me about it, it worked. And she's like, well, it's your story, like you told me about it, it worked. And she was so grateful. Oh, it worked, yeah, and you know, the actress was so grateful because she was freezing, but her hair wasn't actually wet, it just looked wet, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So sometimes you know, you do sort of like manage to think of things that you've learned along the way to help you manage those moments of just things being thrown at you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sorry, I was going to ask something but I've forgotten the question, anyway, so do you feel like now you've got your strategies for the anxiety? I think so. I think so Under control.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I said, it's just I manage it now and I know it will never go away and I've accepted it as sort of my little friend that's always with me.
Speaker 1:Did you?
Speaker 2:get nervous when you did haircuts when you first started.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's a whole new level. And you know, with haircuts.
Speaker 2:I think most of my haircuts at the very very beginning were so minute, you know, just trimming off little bits because I just didn't want to do too much. No, it's not like makeup, let's start again.
Speaker 1:You can't put it back, yeah, um, do you think, though, when you are nervous, it affects your performance, like how you do things? Or you, you've just learned to?
Speaker 2:work through it. I think I try and utilize it to my benefit. So just, you know, it's a it. It's that old saying of you know, if you're not nervous or anxious about it, then no, what's the saying? It's like it's just because you care, kind of thing. You know, like I can't remember how it goes. Yeah, yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:I've forgotten the question now. I've just gone off on a different tangent in my head. What was it? No, that's just like yeah, I know what you mean. I've forgotten the question now.
Speaker 1:I've just gone off on a different tangent in my head. What?
Speaker 2:was it? No, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I can't remember it either. Has it ever affected your performance.
Speaker 2:So I don't think it's ever affected my performance, but I just sort of channel it a bit better. So you know, it makes makes me. It's kind of weird. It's like one of those things where it just it does the nerves, make me feel like I can do it as well, if that makes sense. It's like it's you know, it's like well, I've got this. I almost because I'm so focused on trying to overcome the nerves that I have to positive my talk in my head. So it's like you know I can do this, I've got this. You know you've done this before, you've worked with this person before, or you know the model, or you know, you know what their work is like, or you know. So I just sort of use positive reinforcement in my head to get me through it.
Speaker 1:That makes sense yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, what are some other things that you think? Because I always say that freelancing is actually a mind game it's about managing your mind um more than you know anything else. Because, yeah, those quiet times, right. Um, yeah, how do you go with quiet times?
Speaker 2:they can be pretty tough to work through. I have to admit, you know, and let's face it, we all all had, you know, a lockdown to get through. That was pretty difficult. I guess, well, as much as recently in I don't know if it was in Sydney as much, but in Melbourne it got a little bit- quiet sort of in April and yeah, just gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was. It was just. I heard that everyone, but we were all talking to each other about it. You know, are you quiet, are you quiet? And it was a cross board. It was like, you know, there was nothing being shot, there was no fashion going ahead. You know, stylists, dop, everyone was quiet. It was just everybody. And you know you could tell we're all checking with each other because I was talking to, you know, makeup artists and photographers and, um, even when I was on a job, we're all talking to each other going, are you busy, are you busy? And as soon as someone said we're all talking to each other going, are you busy, are you busy? And as soon as someone said, nah, we're like, neither am I, it's so quiet, thank God it's not me, and it really was. You know, it was the same conversation with so many people.
Speaker 2:Thank God it's not just me, and I think you kind of it does. It gets in your head whether it's just you. Why is no one booking me? What have I done wrong? You can sort of slide into that and sort of isolate yourself. So I think that's why it's important to you know, don't be afraid to reach out to a friend and go, hey, are you busy? Like is it just me or what's going on? And then you know you get that assurance from someone else most of the time that's what it is. It's everyone else, you know, it's not just you. So that's why I think talking about you know what you're doing is a good thing. In saying that, like sometimes, I guess you know you do have to shut off social media sometimes if you're feeling like, why is everyone else busy and I'm not? And remember that social media can be a bit of a beat up as well. Like you know, we all have an image to sort of put out there.
Speaker 2:It may not actually be what's happening. So you've got to, I don't know. So you've got to, I don't know. I do find when I'm not busy, I try not to pay attention to what everyone else is doing until I know that they're not busy as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah doom scrolling, isn't it really? You've got so much time on your hands. You jump on social media and you look at what everyone else is doing and you're like why am I doing that? Why?
Speaker 2:am I doing?
Speaker 1:that. Why am I doing that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, but I did them once, that client once. Why? Why?
Speaker 2:That's a tough one too. I have I mean, I'm lucky enough to have some really good friends and I know I've spoken to you about, you know, jobs that maybe haven't gone so great and how I get past those. You know you've had a bad experience or you know you didn't rebook that client or whatever it is. They can be tough to overcome too and I think, knowing that it happens to everyone kind of you know it's not a nice feeling, but it's not an isolated feeling to you as well because of it. You know it's just like it just happens and there could be a million reasons why you didn't get that job, or why they've, you know, gone with someone else, or why they didn't like you, and you know, you know. Well, that's exactly okay. That's clearly what was going on in my head.
Speaker 1:They just didn't like me oh, I know, I, I, I completely understand. I I'm gonna tell a bit of a story here and I can't believe I'm gonna tell us we're gonna do it because I'm um. So I, one of my first ever fashion clients from years ago, um, you know, I, you know, I do, do, I I'd do them favours.
Speaker 1:You know, one time the model didn't show up, I didn't charge them because it wasn't her fault, anyway, so I did this fashion brand for ages and then all of a sudden, they stopped booking me right and it took me years to get it used, to just bother me so much I used to think about it all the time if I, if I was ever in my you know, when you get into your like um, your dark times where, your brain.
Speaker 2:Looks about why you shit.
Speaker 1:you know it would always, it would always go there and then I'd see that it pop up that they're shooting and someone else is doing the makeup, and you know what Clients are allowed to use whoever they want, like they can use whoever they want for their hair and makeup.
Speaker 1:They were never just for me to use. But then I came up with a new way of thinking about it. So for me now, if someone like doesn't use me again, it's just making room for another client to find me, because you can only really do, yeah you can't do so much you can't do everyone right, so sometimes you've got to lose a client or maybe not get a a job again because it's making room for maybe absolutely, yeah, client to come along.
Speaker 1:So that was my um. Now I've moved states. I actually even stopped. I had to sort of um stop mute people, so I couldn't see what was happening, because I just yeah. I just didn't want to see it like. I just didn't want this constant reminder of like yeah, oh, my gosh, what did I do wrong? What do they not?
Speaker 2:did I say something on set that they found offensive? Yeah, it doesn't become about makeup anymore after a while. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, oh. Is it me? Oh gosh, I'm terrible, I'm shit. But at the end of the day, you know, people move on and people can use whoever they like. I did. I remember my. It's actually my first podcast that I released with Monica Gingold and she was well. She told all of us actually that she's actually contacted clients before to ask them why they didn't rebook her. And I am like man, you are a brave ballsy woman, because I just for me asking that, I just don't. I wouldn't be prepared for what if.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I could do that, but I have. I mean, I've heard a similar story of you know, the client not booking me and it does. It really kind of just sends you down this sort of dark hole of just you ask every question in your head of why, why, why, why, why, um. So yeah, I kind of did try and um turn it into a positive and because they said they, they actually did give me a reason, they said we're going in a different direction, blah, blah. And you know I had a peek at what they did and it was, you know, a different look, a different vibe, right, I mean, like to me. I was like, well, I, you know, if you told me that I would have done it for you, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But you know, yes, but then I I looked back at my page and I was like, okay, well, you know, I was at the time posting a lot of just natural and pretty and you know clean skin, which was fine and what I and the type of work that I wanted. But I thought, okay, well, I'm going to show them that I can do you know, this graphic liner or bright colors or creative. So I just did every test I could possibly do and purposely did, you know, a graphic liner or a bold color or crazy hair or you know, and sort of just pushed myself and sort of changed how I sort of showcased my makeup, how I sort of showcased my makeup, and it created a new sort of clientele for me. So it's kind of like, well, you know out of, you know what's the saying, like you know, yeah, I don't know That'll do yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean you know, I mean I've got so many sort of stories, maybe not as wonderful as that, but you know just things that just didn't go my way and it's part and parcel. I know, in those moments all I can do is, I guess, definitely allow yourself a bit of you know sort of that, because I don't want to say, you know you've just got to get over it, because I don't think you can.
Speaker 2:But definitely allow yourself, yeah, completely, completely, have a moment of grief maybe, yeah, and we'll always think of the amount of times you think, of all the moments that go wrong compared to all the moments that go right. Do you know, like, weigh it up properly? Of course, we'll always remember the, the worst moments. They're going to linger, but the good outweighs the bad and we just yeah, as humans, we have a tendency to always focus on the back, or, you know, remember that more poignantly than the good, and you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure I guess it's just sort of trying to almost accept that we are actually good at our jobs because we've got clients and we've made a career out of it. You know you are getting booked or someone is rebooking you. You wouldn't be a hair and makeup artist, you wouldn't be able to say you're a hair and makeup artist if you didn't have clients. So at some point someone likes you and someone thinks you're good enough. Yeah, do you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think with the whole, uh, makeup artist thing, I think for me it sort of comes down to oh, my gosh. I'm so shit, yeah, yeah, they don't like me, do you? Know what I mean so there's the personal, about me personally, and then there's also about my work and it's just like oh, and I don't you know what, yeah well, it could be my work, and it's just like, oh, and it's you know what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it could, and that's. You know, we've got to remember the word artist. It's. You know, not everyone is going to like what you do, because not everyone likes a piece of art. You know, you go to the museum and you go oh, I could do that, but could you? You know, well, I like that. Well, you know it's so random, but because it's what we're doing for someone, it hurts when they don't like it or when they don't.
Speaker 2:You know, appreciate it, because I've done makeup for someone and I remember I did this. She was just, it was just for headshots, it was nothing special. And I did her makeup and I thought I did an amazing job with sort of concealing and all that type of stuff. And I showed her the mirror and I was all ready for her to go. Oh, but she looked at it, went uh-huh and put the mirror down and I was like, yeah, do you not know what I just did for you, you know? And and then I thought about it, I chatted with someone else and they said maybe they just like she liked the way she looked originally, like she didn't want you to cover up everything. You know she had dark circles. She had a few blemishes. Maybe she didn't see them as bad things on her face and I was. You know she was like, oh, do I need to wear this much to for someone to think I look good?
Speaker 2:so it's all sort of perception of what we think looks good to what someone else looks good and that's you know, yeah, yeah, and as we do try and sort of get that in a brief, you know when we're talking someone, what do you like, what do you don't like, but sometimes they just don't don't like what we do and and some, and also sometimes people.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes they're just not overly expressing. I want everyone to be like oh my gosh, this is the best I've ever looked, and I also love it when they've got a fangirl in the room telling them how great they look.
Speaker 2:Yes, sometimes it doesn't, no, and sometimes it doesn't go like that. And you know, because I did think about I think about this woman a lot actually, and I just think, oh, she just didn't seem that into it and what did I do wrong? But like, see, there you go. That's another perspective I did think about was maybe she just, you know, kept it to herself and went home and sort of went. Oh yeah, just didn't want to express it to me.
Speaker 1:I never thought of it like that. See, I just, yeah, yeah, she might not have. Yeah, I did a makeup actually just last Saturday and when I this, I did the girl's hair and makeup and she, she just didn't stop talking about the hair. And then I did a makeup and she's just like, looked at it and just really basically said to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really love my hair and.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, um, anyway, um, I ended up like it was for a wedding and I ended up um touching her up and I said now I know you don't, I know you're not particularly loving your makeup. I said, is it too natural? And she said I don't know what it is. But yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not enough. Because so she told me she wanted it natural and all this kind of thing. She didn't want lashes and then. So then we gave her some lashes, we amped up the eyes.
Speaker 1:I gave her more makeup, basically yeah, yeah, and then she was fine.
Speaker 2:She just didn't know what to ask for. That could be another thing. Yeah, absolutely, because we have to almost read minds sometimes. But in that sort of instance we're trying to read emotion, you know we're trying to read okay. So she's not jumping for joy, so she's not happy. Like what didn't she like?
Speaker 2:So I was chatting with some of the makeup girls at Neighbours and talking about sort of you know, as makeup artists, how we deal with people in the chair and reactions, and I'm going to name drop here.
Speaker 2:The lovely Jackie Woodburn was in the room and she said because if you think about what we do, we actually have to take on their energy. So however they're feeling, we have to kind of like, you know, if they're in a good mood or a bad mood or whatever it is, we absorb that a little bit and sometimes, when it's the bad energy, it's just like we have no choice, we sort of just have to, you know, work through whatever they're going through whilst doing our job and it can be a bit, you know it's draining, it really is Emotionally. You get in the car and you feel just drained from whether you've had to, um be their punching bag or whether you've had to talk them up, um, whether you've had to. You know, yeah, um, if they're having an emotional day, you've sort of got to work them through it or whatever it is. You know, I've had, I've had models burst into tears and it's obviously something personal going on in their lives and I've had to, sort of, you know, all right let's, let's work through this.
Speaker 2:You know, let's get the makeup on, let's, let's calm down, whatever it is, get them through the day, and then I get in the car and go. I am exhausted, I just want to go home and not have to deal with anyone. So it's mentally exhaustion, it's emotional exhaustion, and then we've got our own things to deal with.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Exactly. Completely yeah, because we put our emotions to the side right and then yeah, so we might have whatever we've got going on, but we have to put our emotions to the side and be this happy, accommodating person with whatever's given to us.
Speaker 2:And you think about a day on set. It's like you know you're constantly happy and chatting and talking and the music's pumping and the energy's up and let's get the energy up, guys. And you know like we've been doing this for six hours straight. We've got you know we've got to keep going. And then you go home and you're just like flat and then you know, whatever you have going on at home, for me it's like a teenager going Mum, pay attention to me. Mum, this is happening. Mum, you've got to drive me here. I'm like I can't, I can't even deal with you. And she's like why are you always so grumpy? It's like so it's, you know, because I've been on set for eight, ten hours at this level and now I've got you know you want me to keep going and I don't have that anymore in me. So the family get sort of the scraps of my emotion.
Speaker 1:Oh, they get the scraps. Yeah, it's like I get the scraps of my makeup. I get the Barbie thing Like yeah, yeah, I get like the, although I am being a bit more generous to myself with my makeup now. Yeah, I was just like oh, what's?
Speaker 2:up. I've upgraded. Yeah, you're allowed that. Yeah, yeah, I've upgraded.
Speaker 1:I've upgraded. Yeah, you're allowed that. Yeah, yeah, I've upgraded. I've upgraded a bit. Do you have any issues when it comes to posting on instagram, like are you okay with with posting? I am now, but I've I've been through in the past. Um, oh my gosh, you can't like oh yeah just analyzing a photo because of fear of what your peers might think. And then I realized that I'm not posting for my peers, I'm posting for. Well, depends on which way you see Instagram. I see it as a marketing tool really so.
Speaker 1:I'm posting for potential clients, right? So since that I've gotten better. But yeah, I used to oh my gosh, I'd send my pictures to a friend and I'd be like, is this? Okay to post.
Speaker 2:Definitely. I think I've went through a phase where I just didn't post at all. You know, I was always on Instagram but I never actually posted. And then I realised, you know, I needed to use it as a marketing tool. I have to be more sort of present not present, what's the word like? Just see more, see, yeah something like that.
Speaker 1:See, I don't know so yeah, I needed to.
Speaker 2:Just I don't want to say get over the fear, but just like you know, be okay with posting and I'm like you, I'm a lot better at it. I used to not like what I posted, but now I'm. I think a lot of it was just I'm bad at taking photos because I don't think and part of that was also I didn't think my. It was just I'm bad at taking photos because I don't think, and part of that was also I didn't think my work was good enough. So I just didn't take the photo at all and just was like no, or I would take the photo and go oh, why doesn't my photo look like everyone else's when they post it? Yes, yes. And then I realize everyone's editing their photos To my credit. I'm really bad at editing, so I have to take a good photo or I can't post it at all because I'm terrible at editing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I suppose the whole, because now that social media has been around a lot longer, you know how you can edit the lighting on the phone like you can adjust the colour and all that kind of thing. Oh yeah, that kind of thing makes a huge difference to an image, because when you photograph it it doesn't necessarily look the way it does to the eye. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:No, Well, especially if you haven't got great lighting, so especially if you haven't got great lighting.
Speaker 1:You know, if you've got amazing lighting, the sun's in the right spot the shades, and you know then it just catches the makeup beautifully, I think. But, um, yeah, it can be really tricky if you, if it's not, um, if the photo's not lit properly and let's like you know we didn't, we didn't, we didn't grow up or we didn't start makeup in a time when we were taking a lot of photos on our phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we've had to learn it Completely.
Speaker 2:And I do think I was a little bit resistant. I didn't realize how big it was going to be, like Instagram, like you know, all that social media stuff. So I really held back for a long time. So I guess that that plays into my age thing. It's like, oh, technology, you know it's not going to be big. And then it was and I was like, oh damn, I should keep up. So I was lagging behind a lot.
Speaker 2:So, um, I, I do try to sort of, like you know, take a good picture these days, eh, but also I mean I guess I don't know it's just I definitely am getting better at posting. But also I think we now understand the power of editing. So, because it has been talked about, you know people are showing before and afters more often. So we know these images are being enhanced, you know these beautiful, so you're more likely to get sort of more positive feedback over a photo that has less sort of enhancements and editing on it. So I think you know people can spot where it's being edited too much. Now, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like we can go oh well yeah, obviously, whereas before it was just like oh, that looks so beautiful, but now we can sort of tell yeah, yeah yeah, exactly, yeah, getting a blemish or fixing the color.
Speaker 1:It was the whole. Yeah, smoothing everything out, yeah, um, and do you ever have any sort of comparison or self-doubt? Oh, all the time, and I kind of have to remind myself.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of it is like you know, you compare yourself so quickly with people just because you go, oh well, you know, look at how far they've come and look at how, how they're getting that job. And oh they, they've done this, this and and this, and I've learned to sort of look back at my career and just go, well, what I've done is pretty good too, you know. But it's taken me a long time to actually feel like this. You know, I've achieved a lot and I shouldn't be so hard on myself. I think it's just yeah, it's one of those things where I don't know whether it's maturity that's allowed me to feel that way.
Speaker 2:I know, when I talk to younger makeup artists, they do sort of go oh, you know, so-and-so is doing this and this, and I want to do this and this, and I go, yeah, that's great, like it's great to have those. But you know so, and so is doing this and this, and I want to do this and this, and I go, that's great, like it's great to have those. But you know, you can can be happy with the small stuff too. It doesn't all have to be big and everyone has to see it kind of thing. You know, oh, I'm going to travel here and be a makeup artist in London and I'm going to go to New York Fashion Week and blah, blah, blah. It's like they're great, you know, they're all amazing things to achieve.
Speaker 2:But if you don't, it doesn't mean that you haven't achieved a lot by staying in Melbourne. You can still be a great makeup artist and you can still have a great career still by being in Melbourne. You know, and yeah, it's just, it's almost like yeah, one of the things that I feel like I've come to the realisation is you know, I originally used to think I want to travel and do this and that and it's like, but I've got a family now and I'm actually a homebody. I don't like to spend the night away too much. I like my bed. So I don't particularly want to travel as a makeup artist. I don't. I don't like packing my kit, all those things it's like. So it's okay, I don't need to travel as a makeup artist to feel like I'm successful. You know.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, I think, um, if you work consistently, consistently as a freelancer absolutely and I you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, I think it's just it's how we view success and how we we view failure. Do you know? It's like well, it's not a failure if you haven't achieved that either. You're still working, you're still doing something that you love. That's success. You know how many people get to say oh, what I do is something that I love, and that I've been doing it for this long. That in itself is a success. And you know, maybe I never got that massive campaign or I'm not travelling overseas, but that's okay too. You know, I didn't head up this team. I don't think I'd ever want that, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've thought, that too. I don't know if I ever really want to head up a Fashion Week team. Anyway, I think sometimes you think you want all these things and then when you actually think you're, like oh, or, like you know, like events and stuff, and I'm like, oh, I don't really know if I really even want to go to events, because then I have to be out past 6 pm and I have to probably wear high heel shoes and I have to have something to wear besides a track suit.
Speaker 2:How do you?
Speaker 1:match the knee? I don't know. I don't know if that's what I actually want to do. Yeah, have something to wear besides a track suit I don't know. Yeah, so I think, yeah, actually thinking about what you really want is really important and also. I think too realising that success takes a long time to get to those places, right, yeah, like sometimes it's 10 years, like people don't realise that it's taken that long to actually be able to get those jobs or do those things. I know, I didn't realize that we want everything now yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was me, my brother. I want everything straight away. Um okay, about some cute favorites, um what have you? Are you? Are you a? Are you a?
Speaker 2:are you a? Yes, I would. Yes, I try you do. Yeah, yeah, I try. Yeah, let's see, I am loving the RMS Cheeks I don't know what they're actually called. I'm terrible Okay. So this you should know about me is I'm really bad with names and forgetting. I'm very okay, so this you should know about me is I'm really bad with names and and forgetting. I'm very, very forgetful. But their cheek blushes are phenomenal.
Speaker 1:I absolutely love it um, yeah, do you have the like? Quite, it's like it almost looks like a red lipstick potentially.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there is one. Yeah, my go-to. I think it's called golden slipper and it's this. I don't even know what you would call it. It's kind of um, I don't want to say. It's more on the warmer side. Um, it's not really pinky, but a little bit Is it pink. It's just, it goes on any skin tone. It's just divine and it just photographs beautifully. But it also looks beautiful, natural, like to the eye. It's just stunning. Every time I use it, everyone always just like oh, this is really beautiful, because it doesn't look like much as you're putting it on, and then it just comes alive. It's just gorgeous. That's one of my loves. Yes, yes, okay, so RMS blushes.
Speaker 2:They use a mixture. I sort of hover between Giorgio Armani and Face Atelier. They would be my two. Yeah, I tend to sort of. I mean I've got a few others in my kit, but yeah, I think I always go back to those. It's just they just suit so many skin tones, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do. Yeah. And what about your concealer? Do you have a few different?
Speaker 2:ones there. My two that I generally will use is the MAC. I'm still an old faithful. The MAC, no, the palette Pro Longwear yeah, very old school, oh okay. Yeah, yeah, that's easy to carry that one, and I do. It Cosmetics the Bye Bye Under Eye. Yeah, yeah, that's easy to carry that one and I do um it cosmetics the bye-bye under eye yeah, yeah, oh okay, yeah yeah, any other have you?
Speaker 1:got anything in in your kit or anything that you use that maybe I don't know that people wouldn't think of. It's like a bit of a surprise I don't know I think.
Speaker 2:To be honest, I think it's the rms every time I pull out that blush. People always ask me for recommendations and I feel like I should be charging or getting some sort of like kickback from.
Speaker 2:So I've gotten on the Emco bandwagon on that one, yeah, and so I do love myself the Emco mascara. So my 15-year-old has only just started getting into makeup and has been begging me for stuff and so I said, well, let's go check out the Emco stuff together. Started getting into makeup and has been begging me for stuff, and so I said, well, let's go check out the Emco stuff together. And she tried the sort of I don't know what it was called like not the primer, it might have been the primer and it had a bit of like illuminating primer and that was beautiful. So I think I'm going to go back and get it for my kit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just got a beautiful glow.
Speaker 2:So not not the Charlotte. That's the one. Yeah, not the um. Oh yeah, it is really beautiful, but I've had to sort of stop her from using. She puts it on for school every day, it's like we don't need to do that, oh okay, yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:Any any advice, anything that you don't think that we've spoken about, to um, I don't know, make a part of the day. I just need a bit of it, yeah, um gosh what would you say?
Speaker 2:what could I say? I guess you know, at the end of the day it's just makeup and you know we yeah it's.
Speaker 2:We're not saving lives. Talk. I think talking is probably the best way around this. And I find, when I have a really, really sort of bad day or something's happened and I just can't get over it, I have reached out to colleagues and I've chatted and I've, you know, given someone a phone call. I've, I know I've spoken to you on a couple of occasions. Um, I sort of just it's, just talking really, really helps.
Speaker 2:And that's another thing I think is important is, you know, because we always seem to hear the negative, like to get validation for our work. We generally get more sort of negative feedback than we do positive feedback. So, as a makeup artist, I always think, you know, if I see someone and they've done great work, and I know that that person's done it, I will reach out to them and say oh, by the way, I saw your work, it looked beautiful, you know. Or I've walked past someone who I know has just had their makeup done by so-and-so. I'll go up to them and go well, I'll say to the person your makeup looks good, who did it, you know? And then go to that person and go their makeup looks stunning and people have done it for me where you know, they've come up to me or they've sent a message through someone saying, oh, they, they saw your makeup and thought it was great. It's like that means more when it comes from my peers and that makes me remember, you know, oh, I'm not so bad after all.
Speaker 1:Definitely not so bad at all. You're great.
Speaker 2:I think, knowing that we aren't the only ones and people at the very top have bad days, people, you know. Oh, here's a good story. Do you remember? Years ago Selena Gomez had her went to the Met Gala and she was very tanned and she was wearing a white dress. Very tanned and she was wearing a white dress and her makeup got slammed on um on social media and, like you know, it was just so bad and even she kind of had to take down a few posts and stuff like that because it was just getting so troll.
Speaker 2:And I looked up who the makeup artist was and it was Hung Van Gogh and I was like, wow, yeah, you know, he is amazing and even he's currently having a bad day because of it. You know, like it's everybody and he's not a bad makeup artist at all, everybody and he's not a bad makeup artist at all, but for whatever reason, you know, it just didn't work for that shot or whatever, like you know, or people just didn't like it, and if someone like him can experience that, then us experiencing our things, you know, aren't so sort of I don't know like it's yeah right, but it happens to the best of them and I think remembering those most like I remember that all the time as to kind of go.
Speaker 2:Well, he had that day, do you know what? Probably lasted days for him yeah, and it was so public, so me feeling crap about my work. You know that's more just on me, I didn't so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think everyone experiences rejection. Maybe like even if you know you have a bridal trial and maybe they don't book you. I mean these things happen to everyone. People just don't talk about them. You know everyone's had a client who hasn't rebooked them.
Speaker 2:You don't get booked for every trial, absolutely Not. Everyone's going to like your work. Not everyone's going to like you like shock horror. Look, not everyone's going to like you like shock horror. It's just, yeah, you just have to. I don't know it really. You just have to remember it's not just you, it doesn't happen to just. It's not an isolated incident to just you.
Speaker 2:It's not personal as annoying as that sounds and I know I get told it it's like it's not personal. As as annoying as that sounds and I know I get told it, it's like it's not personal. It really actually isn't. It's not. They're not. They're not going to destroy you. They're not intentionally trying to destroy you. It isn't personal. It feels personal because it is your work and you have put yourself in it, because we've spent years training and you know we care about our craft and we, you know we love what we do. So it does hurt, it absolutely does hurt when something happens like that. But then we've got to, you know, look at the next day and think about how the next job's going to go and it could be the most wonderful experience and you get the most beautiful team to work with and everyone says you did a great job, and that's the feeling you've got to hold on to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yes I will say no jobs if I know I'm not going to have a good team, or if I know that I'm not going to have a good experience from it, yeah, so it's not worth it.
Speaker 1:It really isn't, it's not worth it. Yeah, yes, you've just got to find your people Find your people.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, Kat Barnsley not.
Speaker 1:Barnsley, as I discovered today. Oh, actually, I haven't even said that. Where can everyone find?
Speaker 2:you on socials. That's Bardsley, not Parsley.
Speaker 1:This is my name, and just your name.
Speaker 2:With a K K-A-T yeah.
Speaker 1:With a K too. Yeah, yeah, yeah With Kat, with a K too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all that, because you know, I think we'll be very, very lucky.
Speaker 1:Yeah we hope so. Okay, bye, I think so. Thanks, kat. Thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.