The Makeup Insider
The Makeup Insider is a fortnightly one-on-one podcast exploring the life and career of makeup artists, hosted by freelance mua Vanessa Barney.. Finding your community of other likeminded mua’s – the creative, artistic, talkative, flexible, adaptable with a good eye for colour kind-of-people, can often be daunting. Like, where do you start? The Makeup Insider is designed for just that. To build a collaborative online community of artists to build their confidence, connections and help drive their career to the next level.If you’re just starting out or have been in the industry for a long time, tune in now, check out the key takeaways in the show notes and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Find Vanessa @vanessabarney @the.makeupinsider
The Makeup Insider
Susan Lilian's Journey from Makeup Counter to Fashion Week Icon
Aussie makeup artist Susan Lilian has been part of this wonderful industry for 18+ wonderful years. With a focus on editorial makeup, Susan enjoys a dark gothic aesthetic and clean beauty. Fusing her creative skills, Susan creates looks for high-end fashion labels, commercial brands and is a makeup director during Fashion Week.
Vanessa Barney engages in an intimate conversation with Susan Lilian, a renowned makeup artist from Sydney, as she shares her journey from the Clinique makeup counter to the dynamic world of Fashion Week. Susan shares invaluable insights gleaned from her extensive career, including her time with esteemed brands like Lancôme and her entrepreneurial venture, Smith Kit.
Key Points:
- From Counters to Catwalks: Susan recounts her journey through the beauty industry, from her early days at Clinique to directing runway makeup at Fashion Week.
- Crafting Success: Susan discusses the significance of networking and the art of social media branding in establishing a successful freelance career in makeup artistry.
- Behind the Scenes: Susan provides a glimpse behind the curtain of the fashion world, revealing the meticulous process behind palette choices and the vibrant energy of Fashion Week.
- Golden Nuggets: Explore the highs and lows of Susan's career, from directing runway makeup to grappling with the realities of compensation in the industry.
- Innovation: Susan shares her innovative approach in creating Smith Kit, a magnetic palette designed for artists on the move.
- Masterclass in Makeup: Discover insights into product selection, versatility, and the transformative nature of makeup from Susan's wealth of experience.
- Life Lessons: Susan's journey serves as a testament to the power of passion and determination in carving out a successful path in the competitive beauty sector.
Connect with Susan Lilian:
www.susanlilian.com
@susanlilianmakeup
www.smithkitforever.com
@smithkitforever
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Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-round beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals, to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick, and if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy. Today I'm joined by makeup artist Susan Lillian and the creator of Smith Kit. Thank you so much. I'm great, great. Can I get you to let the audience know what you predominantly do in the world of makeup artistry and where they can find you online?
Speaker 2:Of course. So I'm Susan Lillian and I am a Sydney-based freelance makeup artist. I also dabble in hair as well. I think you have to do both. These days I'm predominantly in the beauty and commercial space, so photo shoots. I'm also an educator, so I work closely with Sephora and educate with brands that they stock. I have a really close relationship with them. I also conduct masterclasses. I have a masterclass coming up with Givenchy in a couple of months. I work closely with them. I love them. Also, makeup Forever sponsor me for all my Fashion Week shows. I work closely with them. So I'm a makeup director for five Fashion Week shows this year and I love doing it every single year. And what else? And I'm the creator of Smith Kit as well, which is a empty magnetic palette business at the moment but more additional products to come. But it's definitely for the makeup artists who wants to work backstage on set with their clients, just to help them with that process.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a. That's an awesome intro. Love that. There's some things there that I didn't know about you, so I'm really excited to find out more about your education side. Oh, cool, yeah, and um, what are your? What is, um? What's the best place to find you?
Speaker 2:social media wise oh, okay, so I'm on Instagram, susan Lillian Makeup and I. I just joined TikTok, but I don't know how good the videos are, so I don't know if I recommend you following my TikTok, but it could be educational. I'm actually just doing a couple of pieces on, you know, my journey as a makeup director. I thought could that be educational for someone? Could somebody learn from that if they aspire to be a makeup director one day? I I had no blueprint to follow, um, you know, other than you know, my seniors, but I didn't. I couldn't watch somebody online, so I thought that might help someone.
Speaker 1:I think I saw that video. I thought it was great. So so keep them coming, keep them coming. And what's the Smith Kit handle?
Speaker 2:It's Smith Kit Forever. Amazing the Ode to Makeup Forever because I just love it. Oh yeah, love that. It gave me so many opportunities and really believed in me.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's lovely. Love that. All right, let's go back to the beginning. How did makeup?
Speaker 2:artistry begin for you all right. So god, how do you condense like 19 years into a blurb?
Speaker 1:hey, 19 years. You look 24, oh, my god are you good?
Speaker 2:thank god, no, oh, I'm like, should I say my age? Who cares, I'm 35, you know, own it, girl. Yeah, so you know, as soon as I finished school, back then, when you finish high school, the natural progression is to go to university. You're not actually. You don't. There's no entrepreneurial spirit. You don't actually have that. You know beautiful online following where you can share your projects or your art and build a community. You just have to go to uni. That's kind of the expectation that was set on me anyway. And so as soon as I finished school, I thought you know what? All right, it's time to find something to do at uni. But I really would love to work on counter, but specifically David Jones in Elizabeth Street. So the city. I applied. I got the job.
Speaker 2:I started working for Clinique, which is where my love for skin came in. Then, of course, I was working adjacent to Longcombe Counter, which became my absolute obsession. I would save all my pennies up, purchase their mascaras and their gift with purchase every year, and, of course, the YSL gift with purchase too year, and of course, the YSL gift with purchase too. They had some phenomenal launches and I knew that my next step was to work with Longcom. So after a couple of years with Clinique, absolutely loving it, learning all about skin and really basic natural makeup, I suppose, and working with different skin types and age groups, I applied to work with Longcom and I met Michael Brown and he was the one who hired me, and Michael Brown was the senior artist for Longcom at the time, so he was the national artist and he hired me as the event specialist and from there I started as the event specialist for Longcom and then was promoted to state makeup artist.
Speaker 2:So as a state makeup artist you not only have a team below you uh, you do report to your national artist but you have a team below you and you now get to go to fashion week every year and you have, uh, photo shoots that you can attend multiple times a year. So I was working with Camilla and Mark for their lookbooks and it was really like a dream come true. It was an opportunity really wrapped and handed to me. I mean, you know nothing's handed to you, but it really was the most phenomenal opportunity. I just don't know what other brand I could have obtained that with, and so I worked with them for like almost seven years, I think, and I still have such a great relationship with them now. But the important thing about, I think, my journey is that I had a mentor, which was Michael Brown, and he's still a really, really close friend of mine today.
Speaker 2:I think it's really important to have someone to teach you, and especially when you know, back then, when I was watching YouTube, there wasn't really it wasn't HD. It was like watching someone from a potato filming with a potato, so it was really hard to see what they were doing. It was just you know. You'd watch them for the information, I think verbally, really more than anything. And back then, mac and Urban Decay were the two makeup brands that you would hear about, purchase, know about as a creative artistry brand. So, yeah, I think it really was pivotal for me at that time to have somebody to learn off visually, whereas now the artists, aspiring artists are quite lucky they can actually see it firsthand, high definition on their screen or on their phones.
Speaker 2:And from then, you know, I decided to take a step down. I was working really many days a week, many hours traveling Australia. You know my father passed, so I decided to step down. I thought it's time for me to really know, really spend time, a little bit more time with my family, and so from there, I went to Mecca which is phenomenal to learn about incredible Australian brands and brands that we hadn't actually oh sorry, not Australian brands, but an Australian founder bringing over products that we hadn't seen before, and I was just in awe of discovering all these new Parisian American brands.
Speaker 2:What was your role at Mecca? I was a makeup artist, so I was a casual makeup artist doing 15 hours a week. It was the complete opposite of what I was doing and you know, my family were immigrants, so all I ever saw was them working, busting their ass off 20, 24, 7 and and you know I'm from western Sydney, so it you know, nothing's handed to you and I really I knew that and I would just work like a horse. That's something to be celebrated, but I think that's what it takes to grow and personally, but you know, at that time I just needed to take a step down. So I was working 15 hours a week in Mecca at the galleries. It's no longer there, you know, but I was there.
Speaker 2:Then I went to Chanel. Somebody that was from Longcombe, somebody who was an area manager there, hired me for the Chanel boutique as a senior artist. Same hours, hours, really, you know, minimal hours. But again, I think that stems off of building really great relationships. I had someone that right away was like I'm gonna offer you this role and don't have to interview for it. I said, great, I'd love to work back in luxury. I love Parisian luxury so much and, yeah, it's my time to come back, although longcom every year would call me and ask me much. And I thought, yeah, it's my time to come back, although Longcombe every year would call me and ask me to come back. I thought, you know what, it just feels right to keep moving forward, especially if there wasn't, you know, a role for me to step up. And from then, sephora launched. Sephora opened. I don't know if you remember when they did launch but it was like a frenzy out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I remember the first time I went to Sephora in the States. That was like one of the greatest days of my life.
Speaker 2:So it was amazing.
Speaker 1:Dear Lord, what are we missing out on? Oh, it was amazing. What year did Sephora launch here?
Speaker 2:Oh, shit, I have no clue. It feels like a million years ago now. I would say God, I have no idea. The time flies, time flies.
Speaker 2:But uh, as soon as they opened, my friend applied for, or she had a contact inside and she uh was recruited to be an event, uh, sorry, uh an account executive, and I thought that is my ticket to no weekend work and to focus on my freelance career. So, you know, by the time I did interview and get in it, there was no account executive roles left. So I thought, no matter, I still, that is my next goal and I'm going to just go in and work with Sephora for a few hours and that's my introduction to the world of Sephora. I'll be able to meet people and I'll be able to then, you know, build relationships that will get me closer to my goal of being an account executive. And so, after two years I think it was that I was, you know, working there I finally made a great contact with a new brand who was launching and they offered me the role of account executive and from there I was able to I think my hours did pick up heavily, but I was able to actually go overseas, go to Miami, travel Australia with them and that is where my education side lays and remains. And so I do this. I do that for brands that are within Sephora that don't have a representative here. That's kind of what I do as well for them. I dabble in that.
Speaker 2:And then from that point on, I started working my ass off every Saturday, sunday, taking any job I could get. No matter what the pay was, I would be there. No matter what the opportunity was, I would be there, no matter what the opportunity was. I never said no, didn't exist in my vocab and it just organically started growing my clientele. I think if you put the energy out there, that you are freelance, you're ready to roll. You know, the universe knows it just starts, momentum starts happening, and when momentum starts happening, you just have to buckle down and push and push, and push. So that's always what I've done and I proceeded to do that then and my clientele list really grew, grew, grew, grew.
Speaker 2:And just because great word of mouth I started doing lots of one-on-ones, lots of bridles. That was like my forte. I always wanted to, you know, eventually just do what I started off doing and loving, which is fashion with Moncom and brands. But because I'm, I don't have a brand backing me. I have to make those connections myself now. So it's like starting from scratch, if you know what I mean. I know what to do when I'm there, but I need that contact which I have to make myself and that reputation which I have to build myself. So it almost was like starting from scratch. But yeah, it's. It's a long journey and there's like, of course, there's like a lot of little dips on either side, but that's a kind of like a quite a basic tell-all of you know what it's like from start to now.
Speaker 1:What's an account exec?
Speaker 2:Oh, so they take care of all the education they hire. They travel around Australia visiting different Sephoras making sure that the VM is looking, I guess, copy and paste in every store stock levels as they should be. You know, when Sephora holds many brands, I think you have to really make sure that that brand you're taking care of is front and centre, really being recognised and you know how the sale is doing. Why aren't they doing? Well, what can we do? You know? You just, it really is about making sure that business is growing.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it's not necessarily a role where you're doing make-up a lot, a role where you're doing makeup a lot. It's all these sort of other aspects of running a business, I suppose or running a brand Totally.
Speaker 2:It's like an office job, but with beauty yeah.
Speaker 1:You're not, so was that a Monday to Friday job? Yeah, okay, okay, okay, cool. And you mentioned traveling, so would you travel to where um the brand was based and do training and and things like that?
Speaker 2:so the brands I take care of are based either in the States or the UK, it depends what brand I'm representing. But I travel to every Sephora, so every brand. The brands are in Sephora nationwide New Zealand, Australia. So I travel Australia, New Zealand, to make sure that, you know, we build relationships, keep that rapport and also make sure everything's looking good. You know, do they need anything from the brand? And I'm just kind of that middleman that makes it happen. Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm, you know do they?
Speaker 2:need anything from the brand and I'm just kind of that middleman that makes it happen, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And going back to the beginning with the way that you learnt makeup and things like that, was that all done on the job at the stores?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was actually so when I was working with Clin clinic. I back then you really needed to have a makeup diploma or something that said that you did a course. You were not allowed to actually be hired as a makeup artist. You didn't show that certificate and I thought, oh my god, like what am I gonna do? I'm working full-time here, I can't rattle this cage and ask for time off to study. And back then I don't know if you remember, but it was like you either went to Napoleon and paid like 20K, but then you were promised a role you know, or favoured for a role with Napoleon, and I thought there's no way in hell, I can not afford 20 grand. And so I, you know there's not the offering there was now back then. So I went to three arts, which is no longer, I don't know if you remember, three arts school. It was important.
Speaker 1:I've heard of it yeah and because I'm not from here, but I have heard of it from other other artists, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, where are?
Speaker 1:you from um, so I've just moved here from melbourne, but I'm originally from far north queensland oh wow, yeah well thank you.
Speaker 2:I'll show you around how long have you been here for?
Speaker 1:uh, nearly four months. Oh, my god, you're fresh. I'm so fresh and I've been back in melbourne so much that I can really say it's probably even half that amount of time. But, yeah, are you missing home? Are you kind of, uh, moved here for better weather, to be honest? So it is sydney's delivered that, um, I just missed the familiarity of knowing where I'm going and knowing what I'm doing. So it's actually getting better. I'm getting to know you can't, you can't. That kind of thing just can't be speeded up. It's just, it just takes time. So, yeah, it is, and so it's actually giving me, it's teaching me, some patience, which is probably not my strongest, um, my strongest thing Patience. I'm not good with patience.
Speaker 2:I want it yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want it now. It's like and I love like your story, I love that you said that you know this has been 19 years. Your overnight success has taken you 19 years. You know people can look at maybe look at you've got this brand and be like, oh, you know, it comes so easy for you.
Speaker 2:But it's 19 years in the making so hard, so easy for you but, oh my god, it's 19 years in the making so hard and also, like you know, throughout that time, what really slowed me down from progressing was that idea that I had to go to uni and the idea that my mom has degrees and my parents will be disappointed in me if I don't get degrees. And and I hate studying and I'm not a studious person and I just never got it. I was really bad at school and all I wanted to do was like paint and draw, and that wasn't celebrated. That's not something that you went and did, a hobby that you, you know, pursued into a career, and I'm saying that it wasn't because that wasn't. We didn't have the internet like Instagram that showed us that you can do it. It was really the formula was you, you go to uni and that's what you did after uni. You went and did whatever you studied after.
Speaker 2:So I was really lucky in the sense that my parents were always freelancing, like my. My mom's an interpreter, so she's always, you know she has. I always wanted to do something where I had my own hours and I created my own domain, my own world. So I saw a possibility in that. That's the only reason my mind was even open slightly to the possibility of freelancing in some capacity, but it was really. It took me a long time to accept that something I loved doing and enjoyed doing could have monetary gain. I didn't really expect that until not that long ago, I'll be honest. Something that just worked through sometimes, some things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can definitely understand that. I mean, I started as a hairdresser in the late 90s, mid-90s, late 90s and you know, you know, being a makeup artist wasn't really as seen as much as it is now. People didn't get their makeup done, no time. I mean, that's really only happened, I think, oh, 10 years. Maybe it's's really getting people. It's ramped up. Yeah, it's really ramped up, and so I think you know, if you don't see it, you don't know about it or know how to get there. Like there just wasn't the information around. And, yeah, even like now, there's so much more information with you know, even the podcast, instagram, google. You know you can find out so much more information with you know, even the podcast, instagram, google. You know you can find out so much more information. But let's get back to your story. So you're working as an accounts exec, but then you're also doing shoots on the weekend, or bridal clients or personal clients. Yeah, was this to move you in the direction of being a full-time freelancer? Was that a goal or you were just doing whatever?
Speaker 2:that was the goal, oh yeah. So I think in career, in your career, you should always have your. Well, in my career, I always had the next, I always had my next focus and I hyper-focused. So I hyper-focused on that being my next step. I wasn't feeling fulfilled being an account exec, although this was my ticket to being able to freelance on the weekends and build clientele and move forward, being an account exec full-time didn't fulfill me creatively at all. Imagine, you know, I just had that urge and so I wasn't really able to do that Monday to Friday, which I would like. I love my job, so if I did it Monday to Sunday, I would be stoked, you know, I'd be so happy. But yeah, so my weekends were reserved for hustling and making sure that I had clients, and I took clients at any capacity, at any location.
Speaker 2:Blue Mountains, hunter Valley, like I know, was not in my vocabulary, like I mentioned, and so my following grew quickly as a following, I mean, of clientele and word of mouth. And so you know I love bridal. I was predominantly doing bridal and one-on-one makeups for various occasions, and then during the week I might take a day off to then do a test shoot, because that's what I really loved doing. I loved having creative freedom, and so you can't always have that with a one-on-one client, although there is like a time and place for glam and enjoying that process too. I really still love that process. But you know, there's something different about creating your own mood board and putting that to face. So I did that for years. I just worked my ass off for years and I really rode on momentum, and I still do today. I feel in my mind like I haven't stopped.
Speaker 2:My first holiday was last month, first holiday in six years. So you know, that was like on a whim. You know I thought I need creativity. I need like a creative outlet for Fashion Week to be able to create, and all right, let's go to Japan. Creative outlet for Fashion Week to be able to create and all right, let's go to Japan. But you know it was, it was great, but that's kind of how it worked for me.
Speaker 2:So now I'm at a point where I'm doing commercial shoots for beauty brands Monday to Friday, as well as some education on the side and Smith kit as well, and I actually have no capacity for one-on-one make-ups unless you know, I've got my really my clientele of VIPs. That I'll do, probably like three. They're just high-profile people. Can you hear my emails coming through? Yeah, that's okay. I'm so sorry. We're all living our lives, all good. I try to pause it, but I'm a bit illiterate when it comes to stuff like that. Uh yeah, so you know, now I don't really do one-on-ones anymore. Um, I just don't have the capacity and I love I reserve one, one bridal per year, two bridal per year, just because I love it, but it's burnout otherwise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, um. So you know how you said your end goal was always to be freelancing. Did you have a mentor who, because you mentioned, um, michael Brown, michael Brown, did you have someone guiding you or you just sort of winged it? If you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, yeah, no, you gotta wing it totally. There is, everyone would do it completely differently. My formula was taking what I've learned working with Parisian brands having pristine, a pristine makeup kit. I would always be so happy when I showed up somebody's house, laid out my kit and they would be in awe and they would say your kit is so clean, your kit is beautiful, the products you use are sensational and it would just glamour them.
Speaker 2:And you know, I just think it's really important to, um, just take what you learn from other experiences and apply them to your journey. That's the only way you can have a mentor. But you know you can't. I just would feel bad to bug somebody 24-7. So at some point you've got to just go out into that world and do it yourself. But yeah, I really copied and pasted what I learnt from. It was just instilled in me Since I was 17,. I've been doing, you know, I've been the beauty counter, so I knew nothing different. I've never not worn nail polish and I still can't be without nail polish because it's good in me. My nails have to be perfect at all times and those kind of things just I think will die with me. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I kind of copied and pasted what I learned there and I really loved what you said about momentum, because I think momentum's what keeps you going in a way, because otherwise it can. You can sometimes maybe feel like there's setbacks or or you might just get disheartened or doubt yourself, but I feel like once you get on a roll and momentum that you sort of just build you slowly, it's like walking upstairs, I suppose momentum isn't it. Oh, yeah, it just keeps you going.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's hard. The thing is, you know how hard it is to get that momentum. You know how it feels to have zero clients on your books. So when you start to have one, two, three, four, five calling you, oh my God, that is the time that's the universe saying come on like, speed up. Now it's time to double down. It's not time to relax because you think it's all flowing in. It's time to go harder, because what you want to achieve, you'll get there faster if you just knuckle down now. It's a sacrifice. Yeah, it's what was that? Sorry, you have to sacrifice a lot, but yeah, that's your passion and your goals.
Speaker 1:It won't feel like a sacrifice yeah, and also the fact that you'd worked on counter for so long.
Speaker 1:Your skill set was already there, so you knew how to do once you you know, if you're going out and doing clients, you already knew how to do makeup and work with people. And I just think that's really, really important, because I feel like a lot of younger makeup artists now they might do a course, for example, and then they're like how do I get clients? I need to get clients and I I just think that one thing I never did was I never. I didn't ever work on a counter and I I really always wanted to, because the makeup artists who I admire their skill the most have worked on counters because they've just had so much practice on every face, every situation, they've used so many products that they just, oh, they're just, I just think their skill level is so good. Um, so I always tell makeup artists go work on a counter, because the experience and the exposure you get there is just, you can, there is just. I just don't feel like you can get that on your own.
Speaker 2:There's no way, there's no. I mean, it's just, I think, okay. So I was always a little bit angry with myself that I didn't take the avenue of working on set assisting from day dot, because you can learn a lot from artists that way. That just wasn't my journey, and I love to serve. I'm such a giver. So for me, serving other people on a counter, giving them, discovering what they want and, you know, making them happy, was ultimately what filled my cup fully. And working with different brands know how many brands I've worked for. Discovering products from each brand was just such a wealth of knowledge for me and having that in-depth training.
Speaker 2:And everyone I work with has their own training system, like Mega has such a good one. So if anyone you know works at Mega and wants to like assist or anything, I'm like oh yeah, cool, I know you've got great training and you have really good cleanliness. Yes, yeah, it's important, I think, to work on a counter just for a little bit and just to even if it's not for like the makeup side, just so you know what it is to deal with the outside public, that actually don't think they owe you anything and that you really deserve them, and I don't know. It just opens up your eyes to what the real world is about. Yeah for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think, especially if you're working with private clients or weddings, you know communication and finding out what people the consultation process is you know just so important we would practice consultations.
Speaker 2:I just would never forget I used to hate them so much because you know each brand has their way of doing it, so it's almost rewarding sometimes, but it it just it changed the game for me. I think once you hate doing something and you do it long enough, you become a pro at it and you're like, oh, this wasn't so bad, this actually helps, um. But yeah, consultation process is just like that game of elimination almost and um getting closer to knowing what that client's goal is, so you can really like, assess and and give them a target to reach for and then see you in a couple of, you know, see you in a month or for your next kind of um, a lot of product with me.
Speaker 1:It's a relationship as well. Yeah, definitely, we're like yeah, when did you know, or how did you know when it was time to take the leap and leave the leave the full-time job with the security, because I feel that so many people feel a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really not easy. This is the. This is a moment where you have to fully trust in your inner gut and just fully look inside. You know the answer, you have it. You know it. Fear blocks it. Take that fear out. What if that fear wasn't there? What would the answer be? You ultimately know what you want, so I would always just say to look within.
Speaker 2:It was really difficult for me, because I was offered a huge role with a company that I'm working with now in a few months, and that role was my dream role, and I knew, though, that if I just went with another company, my like everything that I had built up, even just this small amount of clientele, was for nothing. So I had to just take a gamble on myself, which, ultimately, when you gamble on yourself, you're always going to win, because you know you're doing exactly what you love and you're capable and you can do it. So I took a gamble on myself, and now I work with them, freelance, that same company, and that was maybe five years later that that came to fruition, but I just had to trust my inner self.
Speaker 1:So when you did Take the Plunge, um is that when you started to build your commercial work during the week?
Speaker 2:yeah, totally. So. That was my next goal. So I was really hyper focused on just doing monday to friday work with beauty campaigns, so kind of going back to my roots, what I started off doing with Longcom and really had a deep love for and having that creative back and forth with fashion designers and stylists and hair. And so I just did. Test after test after test, I sat down with a beautiful friend of mine, charlotte, who is still a great friend of mine today, and she gave me a list of agencies that I should apply for and she told me how I should set up my books and you know what I should email. You know she gave me so much knowing that I could be direct competition with her or for her that I just never forgot that. And any job that I can't do today she's the first person that it goes to, because you know once you do something for me that I could basically repay and you didn't even want anything back from me and I will ride with you for life. So that's how my journey started.
Speaker 2:I started assisting as well, but I only assisted for a really short period of time. I didn't love it. I really just wanted to do my own thing, you know. And so luckily I didn't have to assist for long. I think I assisted three artist tops which they were all fab but I was like I know what to do, like I've already been in this situation, you know, from my early days. So as soon as I started getting my own work, I thought I've got to concentrate on my own stuff. If I keep leaving room for assisting jobs all the time, I've got to just say at one point I'm not assisting anymore, to everybody, every agency that emails me, because guess what? I'm telling myself and the universe that I'm not assisting anymore. And then my job started flowing in.
Speaker 2:I just truly believe in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how? How did you get your jobs? How did you? Did you reach out to clients, cause a lot of people always say how do you get commercial work? How do you think?
Speaker 2:that came for you. Oh, it came for me having a really great. I think you just have to have a beautiful Instagram, curated Instagram, and that's your portfolio as well, and that's why I'm, like, so grateful that we have options that are available to us like that. I never had that when I was younger so I couldn't actually when I was 18, show anyone. Actually, I have a book that I carried around and I still have it at my mum's place and it just had all my beautiful work with Longcom and magazines, Like because you know, when you work for a brand like Longcom, you're giving so many opportunities and I did so many magazine covers and things like that and I would have the magazines in my mum's garage.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, back then you had to do that. So I think how I got the jobs today was a really nicely curated Instagram. And I'll tell you now your community, the people that you met along the way from all those years. For myself, personally, it was all those years of retail, knowing people that now stepped up to marketing jobs, to PR jobs that would contact me, because we worked great together and I never burnt any bridges. They called me and offered me many jobs. So I think if I had any advice to give anybody, it would be just to be a nice, normal human being and don't burn any bridges, and yeah be a nice, normal human being and don't burn any bridges and yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that one totally. Yeah, kindness, just be kind. Um, just be kind. So tell me about how you started directing fashion shows, as in the makeup for fashion.
Speaker 2:Yeah to have been involved with fashion week for long comp every year and up until recently I was actually, you know, and and it comes back to really good, maintaining really great relationships. I was working with long com up until not long ago, actually as a freelancer on their shows too, which was fabulous. But Make Up Forever, really having that backing of such an amazing brand, and I have all those contacts with designers anyway from the many years of work that I've done with them and they've hired me for shoots, campaigns and things like that. And so naturally the conversation progresses to hey, would you be interested in joining us for Fashion Week? And, of course, but let me bring over Makeup Forever, who is my ride or die. I've been using them for about 10 years. They're my favorite brand. Let me bring them on board to sweeten that deal. Pay my artist and we can use some fabulous product.
Speaker 2:And again, it all really comes down to those relationships that you build with designers and with PR agencies and, of course, the skill level that you have and that you can show that of course you can handle that pressure backstage, because it's immense pressure. Not everyone enjoys doing it or even wants to do it. Some people don't do Fashion Week at all. It's furthest from what they want to do. But if you do want to, you know, do a Fashion Week, make sure that you even apply for being an assistant backstage or, you know, I guess, speak to the artist during the year and, you know, organically follow them, organically, support them so they actually recognise who you are, recognise your name, and so when the opportunity pops up, that fashion week comes around, you're in their emails, you know, shooting through all the work that you've done and applying to work with them. And I think if you have no contacts, that's where your starting point is is just seeing how it runs backstage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when you're looking for your fashion week team I know this is a question that we got, yeah, how do you find your team? Is it people who've reached out to you? Is it just people you know and love and work with? How do you find your?
Speaker 2:team Such a mix. For sure I'm a huge believer in giving people chances to come in. I can't stand when there's just teams that are the same every single year, without allocating space for new talent and fresh, new vibe, because it's so important to nurture people. Like I was nurtured, I'll never forget the people that took chances on me when I had nothing to offer but a great attitude and you know, helping hands. So I always offer that and make sure that I have space for that. So every year I had two different assistants to come backstage with me and just to learn like even if there's, you know, there's always something to do, my god but just for them to hang out and then, if they're great, the next year they can be on the team.
Speaker 2:But I generally do half half. So half is people that I've perhaps met this year. So that's how my team is this year. Half is people that I've met this year that I think, wow, they're great, I'd love to work with them, I'd love to have them work on my team. I think they're amazing, their attitude is so great.
Speaker 2:And the other half is people that are like family to me, that I've known for 10 years, and that side is because I know that they will take care of my job like it is their own and that is what I need. And at the end of the day I have to remember that it's about delivering the best results for that client. So as much as I want to have that team be fresh new faces, I have to make sure I do what's best for that brand. It's not about me. That's how I choose and I allocate skill sets to different brands. So if I think somebody for example I have injury on Friday, that's the last show I make sure that whoever is on injury, which is a really a little more of a theatrical creative makeup that's what they love doing and they're going to excel in that area.
Speaker 1:So kind of allocate skill levels and what it brings my friends joy in into what shows they pertain in yeah, um, so what if someone's already sort of like an established makeup artist they've been doing it for you know, 10, 15 years um, what do you think is the best way for them to making breaking into it? Because I think that's pretty much what the person who asked the question. You know they're an experienced artist.
Speaker 2:Amazing, yeah, so I would do that, I would follow. I would actually clock who is a makeup director every year for Fashion Week and organically follow and support their work.
Speaker 2:So if somebody comes to you a couple of weeks before Fashion Week and says, hey, I'd love to be a part of your team via DM, you have nothing to go by A my team is set and done because I had to already send them to the designers and I can't add anybody else on and I, by that dm. I don't know who you are. I don't know what your background is. I've never spoken to you before. This is the first time you've ever communicated with me, so our relationship isn't organic.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like you follow me or you really enjoy my work, because you've never commented on one thing I've done or spoken to me mechanically.
Speaker 2:So you know that's someone that I'm not really going to clock, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 2:But if somebody sends me a lovely email and says hi, I'm Susan Smith and this is my body of work and I want to share with you what I've done and I have a makeup artist for 15 years and I am this is actually an email that I got the other yesterday, because I get emails and dms 24 7 for fashion week shows and I actually got somebody who shared that her, her resume, with me and she said I've been a makeup artist for 15 years and I would just be happy to even clean your brushes and be backstage with you.
Speaker 2:For me, that's the right attitude, because you might be a makeup artist for 15 years but you're a bridal makeup artist, so you have no experience with, I guess, backstage work, or perhaps you're not really someone that has done much creative work and it's a whole. They're two different worlds, so it's a really good attitude to say, hey, I just want to know about this world before I ask for you to give me a chance to be on your team, and that's a really sure way for someone like me to say hell, yeah, come on.
Speaker 1:Like great attitude um, I liked what you mentioned about um following the artists and supporting their work.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, organically, but you know, have to.
Speaker 1:I think that's um. Yeah, I think that's really important and I love that. You mentioned that. They emailed you and yeah, they told, they told you about themselves and their experience and yeah, I think that. I think that's. I think that's really because I think I think, um, sometimes, you know, we forget that when things like something you know, like when someone might just say something to you on Instagram, but there's no sort sort of they're just commenting on something, there's no warmth to it. Do you know what I mean? Does that?
Speaker 2:make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like it can. It can come across very different to their intention.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I can't read anything about you. I don't know anything about you, so I don't know what your character's like. Like you know, we had a couple of comments. I could gauge a little bit, you know, if you've met, if you've laughed at a story I've put on, I could gauge. Oh, like, your personality is a little bit similar to mine or you know anything. But if you just send me one DM saying can I be a part of your team I actually don't know about you, which is okay, but I mean, and not everyone knows that you should, you know, send these elaborate emails, um, and I only really learned this from receiving these emails and being so impressed. So I do not judge anyone that slides into a DM and does does it that way.
Speaker 1:But if you're listening, this is a better way and this is yes, that's it yeah, and I think I, I just think, yeah, knowing, and you know, maybe maybe it might work, um just dming someone, someone, maybe someone is sick or something and they need a replacement. So, yeah, there's, there's always um a better, a nicer way to show who you are, because I think it's really important to show who you are.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, like, because there's, I know about one billion and one makeup artist. So what makes you different? Yes, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's a sure way to be invited. I just think have a great attitude and be sweet, be kind, be nice, be willing, be open, because I'll be looking things back to you for sure yeah, um, how did your relationship start with makeup forever oh my, organically again, fully organically.
Speaker 2:I was just always obsessed, obsessed with the brand. Since I worked with sephora I've used their products religiously, especially their foundations. I just found that they worked. They never let me down, their formulas never let me down. Being someone who focused on bridal but then went to doing a little more commercial work beauty shoots I love HD products and they offered that. And they were the only makeup brand that I knew of, apart from more pro brands that offered, you know, that were within a Sephora and that were Parisian and that were high end. So everything I love that had HD offerings. So I worked with them for a long time. I'd always sorry, I used them for a long time and I'd always post about them and organically, the Australian team would see I even used their foundation on my wedding day. I just I love them. Organically. They saw that I really worshipped them and they would send me PR and then that relationship started from there.
Speaker 1:Cool, and have you educated for them? Did you say that?
Speaker 2:No, no, Givenchy.
Speaker 1:Givenchy, givenchy. How did that relationship? How did that relationship? How did that happen?
Speaker 2:was that through your Sephora days or yep, yep, through my Sephora days as well. So again, even if you think that this is the shittest job, this is just a shit retail job. Whatever, I'm just gonna wait. I'm just gonna come in, get paid, leave you. Any job you do, you must throw 110% at it. Someone's watching and you actually can't foresee the future. So you know someone that actually was management, then then became to, then went over to Givenchy as management and they knew my work ethic and they knew my background working with many brands, of course, being a state makeup artist in the past and having to do lots of education and public speaking for them. Then they knew that I was that person for the job and I love Givenchy and, organically, I use them often. So that's how it started and actually that was the role that I was offered that I cried about not accepting.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, imagine saying no to Givenchy like yeah, yeah, and what if this doesn't work out? Then I've lost this opportunity with a brand that I love, so yeah.
Speaker 1:But it has.
Speaker 2:It worked out yeah.
Speaker 2:It has and it worked out. And now I can actually. You know, because? Because when you do work with one brand, you are then locked into working with that brand and using that brand and it doesn't leave you any opportunity to be a fully a beauty lover and explore other brands and speak about other brands. It's frowned upon. So, you know, you don't kind of have to ride or die for the brand that you represent. So if I did work for them in that capacity, I think I would have been able to discover other brands or build relationships with them. So, look, you just have to trust yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you mention you've done a masterclass with them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, yep, I did a masterclass with them and I'm also curating one that will come up in the next few months, and I think that one's in Melbourne, oh really Is that for makeup artists or for the public? That one is for makeup artists and I think it's going to be one session for the public, but I'm not sure yet. It's just been kind of um locked in, but we still have to work out the finer details, but at the moment I just don't have the capacity to take anything else in.
Speaker 1:It's all about fashion week and that is all I have yeah, can you tell um, can you talk about fashion week, what you're working on and just what are your weeks like? Like, what's the lead up? How far in advance? Yeah, yeah, how's it all, how's it happen.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. That's why I say like, if you want this, make sure you want this, because I think it takes a special person to block everything out and, oh my god, it just, it takes over, it consumes your whole life. Yeah, even, and I always think it's okay because there's a, there's a, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel, like I, it's only for a couple months that I have to be this hermit, or I have to, you know, give up things in my life and just fully in a fashion week, um, but I love it. So that's. It brings me immense joy. So that's why I put up with this stress that I'm under um.
Speaker 2:So I'm working with blanca, um, uh, on the wednesday, and then I'm directing um mariam sadiq on the wednesday evening oh, no, sorry, my apologies, it was carla spedic on wednesday, blanco and mariam on thursday. Yeah, two in a, two in a day, of course, uh, and then injury is 6 am the next morning, so it is tight. But I love these brands. I really wanted to work with them and, yeah, I, yeah, I was gonna take one more and I thought my body, my being, cannot accept another. Yeah, um, but I'm still being called up, for I actually was um on the phone yesterday with img and they were offering me another brand and I said forget it like lose my number till next year. Dude, yeah, I can't so how?
Speaker 1:how far in advance do? Well, obviously not that far if someone's asking you now. But um how far in advance do most, most brands, reach out? Probably two months, two months okay.
Speaker 2:Two months okay, which isn't much leeway time. It doesn't give you much time, does it? But that's just how the industry works. It's like you're built on immense pressure and it's a lot.
Speaker 1:So talk me through. They reach out. Yep. You say yes, is the next step a meeting? And then when do you start talking? Looks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I actually require their mood board, first because I need to know that this aligns with me, that I'm going to have to work with, and also if I'm going to rope my mates into coming and joining me for these Fashion Week shows. They've got a C value in it too, and I want to make sure that these jobs are awesome for all of us and we actually have great photos. And you know, at the end of the day, when my team joins me, I make sure that they get incredible imagery. They get every photographer that is on there. I link them. They have it all. They have everything I do. I want to make sure that it's a brand worthy of posting Nothing too boring. So I really of them posting nothing, nothing too boring, um, so I really make sure that it aligns with me. I say yes and then we go straight into a meeting so we meet each other. It's almost like you hiring someone to build your kitchen. You kind of want to meet them a little bit and know what their vibe is and
Speaker 2:it's the same. So you make sure that you click everything's going well. Then you talk about sponsors. So what sponsors do you have for us? Because it it's it really is based on your sponsorships a lot of the time. Um, a couple of my shows weren't based on sponsors, but I always want to bring my favorite brands in because I know the job will be wonderful if I can use those products. So this year I have Make Up For Ever and Emberlace sponsoring me.
Speaker 2:And how can the looks go wrong? The products are fabulous and the next step is to guesstimate what you might be using on the day. So they'll send you references, you'll send them references back and you'll put your own flavour and spin to it, and then you'll order products from the brands based on those looks. You haven't done trials yet, so it's hard. Some trials are done a week before the show, but you have had to order the products prior to that.
Speaker 2:So you just kind of have to go with the flow. It's really stressful, but you can't be someone that breaks under pressure. You just have to go with the flow. It's really stressful, but you can't be someone that breaks under pressure. You just have to go with it and just immensely organized, beyond belief, um, and have great communication skills and always make sure you have back and forth emails and any questions you have or your team has, you know you've covered um. No last minute questions because there's a designers are busy, they're designing yeah, okay, you don't actually know how many models you're going to have on the day, which makes you don't know.
Speaker 2:No, you don't, so tell me about it so the reason that you don't know is because the designers are designing and they don't know if they're going to hate that piece and keep it in or they're going to need they. See the collection. I think it needs more. They think this it's, it's almost like a final touch of a makeup product. It's the same with designing. So they think I need, I know this. This whole collection needs one pop or needs this, so then they might design something last minute. So that's why it's stressful to choose a team and that's why I have my assistants ready to roll if they need to step in or jump in, um, so you kind of have a in between. So models might be 15 to 25 not sure yet I'll know, perhaps a couple of days before and you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay with that. You have to be okay with not knowing. You can't be a control freak, or if you are, you need to put that aside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, put it aside because I'm a yeah. I'm a bit of a control freak girl.
Speaker 1:I just met you, but I'm like I reckon you could be like me a bit of a control freak Totally.
Speaker 2:I like to know where everything looks, where everything is. But yeah, you've got to put it aside and go all right. What's the worst that can happen? I've got there's nothing. Yeah, like, what's the worst? I've got my team here. Everyone's so good I know it's going to work out. And hey, the show can't run if everyone's not ready. That's it, the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, and do you have anything to do with the hair people, the hair director leading up to it as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, yeah, we work together. We actually do the trials on the same day? Usually it depends. But I like to bring in my nail team. So I like to support you know, because I'm from western sydney and if anyone knows anything about living in western Sydney, the opportunities aren't given to you, the opportunities are in the city. Hence why I always wanted to aim and work in the city, because that's why I got all the amazing roles I did.
Speaker 2:So I venture out and make sure that I try and source from Western Sydney to actually give you know, to show that you can definitely you can do it, man. You can leave the West and get into Fashion Week, and so we have a beautiful nail team coming in. So they're called CK Artistry, cj Artistry, sorry, and they're from Western Sydney, and they have a whole team coming in to facilitate nails on the show Injury. So I also have a lot to do with hair, with nails, um, and with the, the stylus as well. So it's like a whole world oil machine and you must you know. That's why sometimes you see the same artists with the same brands, because the designer knows that everyone works really well together and that creative juices just flow. So sometimes that's why you see the same artists working with the same brands um, oh, tell me about the trial days.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about what happens on the trial day.
Speaker 2:Yeah god it's super stressful because you know everyone has a couple of different looks in mind. How do you, you know? How do you decide what that debut makeup is going to look like?
Speaker 2:yeah so, ultimately, you design what you think you know you've. You really have to listen to the story the designer tells you. I ask how do you want, how do you want people to feel when they look at your work? And when they yeah, when they look at your work, because I have to kind of mimic that with the makeup in my mind I have to be an addition to their work, not a standout.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, I start with that question and then I try to create something that I think works with what they've requested and with the feeling that they want to, um, I suppose, bring up, you know, in their audience and I I put it from paper to face and the models are hot, so usually it looks really good. Anyway, you could scribble on their faces, it look amazing. But yeah, and then, and then we have notes, you know, okay, can we change this, can we add this? So we're there for freaking long time, sometimes on their day, all day, um, and sometimes you know the the most simple of looks, for example, like a last year it was, uh, what was it? It was like a silver, silver eyeshadow with a little bit of gold through it, and I had to find like 10 different variations of that shade and it was just a soft wash of color.
Speaker 2:So to you, to the general public, they don't even care. That's nothing to them. But for each designer everything is so specifically well thought through. You've got to get that out of your head and go. That matters to them. It matters to me, yeah, but you've got to find 10 different shades and make sure they're happy with that final shade. So it's not easy but it is fun. You know you have, like it's a really cool world to be a part of. But just prepared for it to look glamorous afterwards in the photos and the videos that I post. But know that, hey, I was in hell, girl, don't worry, I was in pure hell leading up to it. It's not glamorous.
Speaker 1:And so you've done the trials. Does that ever change for the day?
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't. But look, actually, it depends how much freedom the designers give you. So usually, no, it's set in stone. However, I worked with Injury last year and they are amazing 3D artists as well, so they do beautiful motion videos that they win awards for. They're a really edgy. They're an incredibly edgy brand. They're incredibly edgy brand.
Speaker 2:And so you know, prior to the models running out on stage sorry, yeah, prior to the to them showing, actually, you know, walking the catwalk for the audience and the attendees. You get to watch the show prior to that, so they all walk. You look at the makeup. You sit there. Usually you're alone and you're sitting there watching each girl walk past, looking, seeing how the makeup looks. What do you have to adjust? Does it work? Doesn't it work?
Speaker 2:And there was a beautiful video playing in the background of the injury, because that was their intro, and there were these like girls that had amazingly spiky hair and they had the same makeup on and I thought, oh my gosh, I've got to completely change two of the makeups to copy and paste that. It's going to look unreal. I'm going to be so stoked. So we ran backstage I said, oh my God, like everyone was on tech, we've got to change it to this photo. I just took a photo of the screen. We have to change it to this makeup and it looked unreal. So there are times that you can, but that's when a designer trusts you fully and that is rare. So I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not common, okay.
Speaker 1:That would have been amazing. It was so fun, yeah, so fun, yeah. And when people are doing Fashion Week, is it generally a paid thing, a paid thing in product, or just depends on the show? How does?
Speaker 2:it work Depends on the show, yeah, so every show is different. There's usually never budget. I know that people complain and say that in Europe I get paid. I get it. We don't get paid. You know, no one gets paid. Everyone gets paid in product. I get it, unless you get sponsored by a brand that pays you to be there. Um, you're getting paid so, but everyone is completely different. So I don't assume I don't want people to assume that I don't get paid. I don't assume that you do get paid. It really is. But you know the the brands do supply a lot of product and that's why I have sponsors on, because I want them to get as much product as possible and my goal is for them to purchase the least amount. If you ask my crew last year what they got, I promise you they'll tell you. Why is there bubbles going on in my script?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I saw that. I noticed it before. It's so cute.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, I noticed it. I was like I love it. Yeah, I noticed it, I was like bubbles, I love it. You ask the team what they got last year. I'm telling you they probably gave half of it away because I filled their bags so full to the brim. And then I bought a spare suitcase full of makeup from a product that they could just dig and take and I know that that's going to last them forever.
Speaker 2:So I want to make sure that at least I that's going to last them forever so I want to make sure that at least I, you know, lighten the burden of having to purchase products later and and in hopes that that helps um, but it is kind of a given that you, that you don't really go for payment, because payment, if you do get it, it's like 100 bucks, like it's so shit. And you, you go there and you get phenomenal um visuals and that's why I make sure I, I, I do what I never received being um an artist backstage. I get the links of everything I receive so they can post it on the day, um, yeah, and they can admire their beautiful work and imagery. Because that's the. The real payment is to show the work that you've created and to say and it's elite to be backstage, you know, you have to be a really amazing artist to be trusted to. You know, have this work come out on the runway and be in vogue and on press.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. I can't wait to see what you create this year. Thank you, me too, I don't wait to see what you create this year.
Speaker 2:Thank you, me too.
Speaker 1:What are we in? It's not far off. What's?
Speaker 2:it going to be.
Speaker 1:Is it like three weeks away?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what's crazy Like the injury is the most you know theatrical or goth show, which is my. I'm totally goth on the inside, so I love it it. But we can't design until they cast, because I have to design based on characters. They're all characters. I have to see the person to design for them and that's how I work. So I that's why I say I, you know, I'll let you know, because I still don't know until, yeah, hopefully next week. But that's why I'm going to be a hermit for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, I did have another question on that. Do you take an assistant around with you? Do you have someone who's with you when you go to your meetings, when you do your tests or you just fly solo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I fly solo. You know. I think that it's sometimes a little bit jarring to bring too many people, because you want it to be a little bit more relaxed when you're, you know, and you want to really form close bonds with hair stylists and designers, like it should just be you guys, you know, and that's how I work anyway. I mean, you know, of course you can bring your assistant, for sure, no worries. But I think I just like it to be a little more like hey, we're family and we're just creating this and we're just having fun and we're just chilling and um, I think that's when the best creative um juices flow cool all right, let's talk about smooth cute.
Speaker 1:How did, how did this? How did this guy or girl come about?
Speaker 2:oh, my gosh. So it was like three. It's been three years in the making. It's just. You know, you, can you imagine how many empty magnetic palettes that I've tried in 19 years of working? And, yes, a lot. And so I was never. I was so frustrated, I was never happy with the palettes that I used. They were it. You know, what it all came down to is the quality of the product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my dream. Just before we go any further. Have you always been like a condenser? Has that always been something you do?
Speaker 2:Okay, always attempted, and that's why I believe I have purchased every palette under the sun, because I have always attempted. So I have seen new ways of doing it, new palettes that have come out. I've always purchased them, but I've never been happy. I've never kept them in there. I've always gone oh, it's so fucking annoying that I've actually ruined my amazing Chanel palettes, my Dior palettes, and then they're sitting in this piece of crap. So I just the frustration was so real that I oh, my god, I sat down one day and I was venting to my poor husband who couldn't care, like what does he care about that? But I was like, and I was showing him like a bulk of pack, a bulk of packs that I had, like just layers of palettes that I had in my drawer that I didn't have the heart to throw away because I paid for them, but they were either sitting in with product in them that I couldn't put back into their amazing packaging. And I'll never forget looking at these beautiful domed Chanel blushes and thinking, oh, what a waste. Like I'll never use this now. And my husband was like, just create your own, why don't you just create your own? And then I thought I'm going to create my own.
Speaker 2:So I sketched, started sketching right away, and at that time I had zero idea about how to create a palette. But all I knew is that I wanted my palette to really mirror the high-end packaging, that I was obsessed with something strong, something that looked good. It wasn't a flimsy, thin piece of acrylic that scratched easily. I just wanted the top, the bottom, to look luxe, and so something I was proud to put on the table. And you know, I have high-profile clients and I really wanted them. And if you know anything about clients, they love to see your packaging and they oh wow, you've got that Chanel blush. So for me to be able to condense, I had to really and keep that kind of magic about the products I was using. I had to condense into a palette that was looking high end and expensive, and that's why I created Smith Kit Amazing.
Speaker 1:And that was three high-end and expensive and that's why I created SmithKit Amazing. And that was three years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, like we were talking about before we started, it takes that long because you have to save a ton of money for it and there's a million back and forth with factories and actually it took me almost a year to even find a factory. It's not easy. I was going to say how do you know how to do that? Sorry, I think I've lost you there, girl.
Speaker 1:Oh my God oh, here we are, we're back, we're back. Yeah, you were talking about factories. How do you, how do you even start? How do you know how to find a factory?
Speaker 2:you don't. So I had contacted everybody that I knew in austral. I got contacts from somebody that worked in L'Oreal that I knew, and I kept speaking about PC, about acrylic, and they were like, what are you talking about? Like we don't. No one knew what I was on about really and I just thought, okay, well, the formula is acrylic and PC. I really have to shout out for that and see if there's factories here in Australia that make it. And you know, I got amazing contacts but they just couldn't supply what I wanted at the level that I wanted.
Speaker 2:So it took me almost a year and I found a sourcing agency, a sourcing company. So they are the middleman between yourself and a factory and they almost take all the hits of any errors that are made along the way. So, and they have. You know, this specific company has people overseas that cross-check and quality check everything. And that's the scary part about handing all your money over to a factory thousands of dollars you've saved up and they send you a sample. This is what happens, occurs often. They send you a sample and the sample actually is fabulous. Then you go fab, let's go into production, and the units you receive are completely different material and they aren't what you signed off on and there's nothing that you can do about it, because they're far away in a factory, exactly, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So you need a middleman to help you, and if anybody is, I'm I don't ever um gatekeep uh, if you want the contacts that I've had and you have an idea, just do it come, come and dm me or email me and I'll give you every supplier that I've met and and the agency, and, and you can have it, because I just think it's. You know, there's so many products that still need to be made for our industry, um, you know, especially in australia, and I would love someone else the opportunity to, but yeah, it's not easy you've got three different sizes yes, yeah, small, medium and large.
Speaker 2:So it's a high-end magnetic palette made with quality materials. It's got a secure lid, so you know you kind of open it, not from the center, because I've made the latch really secure, you open it from the side. So this is just like it opens, pops open easily, like that I read that on your notes that you send out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because you know, what has happened to me in the past is that and it's healed me and it's and it's scarred me. So I made my palettes um, you know, idiot proof on my open proof as well um, and so, yeah, what happened to me is that it opened in my kit and all my products were scratched and beat up because the actual clasp was so weak that it just opened and it ruined all my high-end products. So I've made the latch nice and secure so that anybody that kind of leaves this on its own in the kit, it won't pop open for you. So it's got resistance in the centre, but once you open it from the side, it opens nice and easily. Um, and it has a really high glossy finish. So I really wanted I. I feel like that gives a lovely finish to the product. Yes, just the quality is awesome in my opinion beautiful.
Speaker 1:Um, how did you, when you designed the three different sizes, did you have different things in mind?
Speaker 2:totally yep, so like, let me even show you what I had in mind for them and what I've created. So, um, I knew that I wanted more my concealers to be in, my color correctors to be in the small, I wanted my lipsticks to be in the medium and I wanted my powders, my blushes, contours, to be in the in the large. Yeah, and all my colors. Like, for example, if I have a set of purples, I kind of color code them that way, a set of reds, I color coded that way and I have them in a special bag. Um, and that's my kind of editorial kit that I can time, and you know, of course, as we know, what condensing is about. Like that was a million. I used to carry around back in the day all these lipsticks in a bag. So just save some time, yeah, and then, so you can actually, that's why I created them flat, so I can actually lay them on top of each other and save space because it's also about the table set up.
Speaker 1:It's all about the setup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sets up beautifully. What I found is I purchased products and the lids wouldn't open all the way, and so that frustrated me, because it's it's you're blocking the. It's all like visual for me. You're blocking the pattern behind it and you're seeing scratches. I don't want and of course these are going to scratch, but I don't want that to be shining in the sun for people to see. Uh, so you know, we strategically lay them flat. You have more room, more space, and they just lay perfectly. That was such a hard ask, for the factories too. That's why it's been that many years, because you know all the. I always say to the factories like guys, we've been to the moon, you can make that palette lay flat.
Speaker 2:So I fight with them, I fight with them and you know, and then we, they bring back a solution. But at the end of the day, if you don't push, they don't care enough about your product and they don't even know. They don't even know what this is about. I'm sure to make it happen and it's important to also, you know, have a really nice, strong, magnetic base, which we've put in these.
Speaker 1:And also one thing I find with other palettes is they crack here. This looks quite sturdy Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I just I was never going to say yes. I think my husband. Just what brought me down to reality was my husband got a palette that I had previously complained about and he said hold them in your hands, like just compare them. And I said, all right, we're ready for production, because I just it was never going to be perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I that well, because that's happened to me. Um, I'm aware of it, but yeah, that looks very like it. It doesn't look like it would.
Speaker 2:It actually isn't big enough to crack, to be honest and look, if anything ever does happen to your palette, just send me a dm, send me an email. I'll send you a new one. I think for me, customer service is the one I want to make sure you're super happy. If you hate it, send it back. I don't want you to have it. If you don't, if you're not using it, I'll refund you, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just about having you know we are going to do a chat about condensing your kit, so we'll save that for that chat. Oh cool yeah, oh no, not that just in general, because I really want to hear about some of your career highlights as well. And, yeah, just have you. Is there anything in your? I mean, you sound like you'd have so many career highlights. God, I think it.
Speaker 2:You know what, um, I think, highlights? It really depends on what you view as a highlight, right, like, is it working with a company you've always wanted to work with, or is it trusting yourself and like leaping into doing something that you've always wanted to do but had no idea what was, you know what the future held for you, but it paid off and it worked out. Like what is that to you? I think for me it was. For me, my career highlight is just seeing it through and pushing, and pushing, and pushing until I like I just knew that there was more for me out there and I knew that I hadn't reached my full potential and that killed me beyond belief. And just proving myself right, because you don't know if that's true until you prove yourself right. So that is my career highlight yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people sort of think it's going to be some celebrity you've worked with or something like that. But um, yeah, I think I think having a successful career is definitely a highlight, because freelancing is hard.
Speaker 2:It's a mind game. It is a mind game, you know, and you can people. That's why people don't do it. They say there's no money in it. And you know there is a heap of money in it. Like you know, this industry is the biggest, you know, like beauty. Imagine how much money comes into the beauty industry. If we want to make money, we're in the right industry. It's not going anywhere fast, it's only growing. And so I think that the people that leave and they say I just am not making money, it wasn't for you, because you would do this if you didn't make money, really make much money. If you're kind of just like paycheck to paycheck, which I was for so long oh my God, you know, and I was just still so stoked to be doing it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I agree, I yeah, I think with freelancing, it's the unpredictability that people struggle with, and I think you've just got to, you've kind of got to get good at it. You know Totally and know the universe has got your back and the work's coming.
Speaker 2:It's coming and you're going to enjoy it because that's what you love to do, and you know your past self will chase you and you'll be like nope, I don't want to go back there because I'm doing what I love, even if that paid 20 times more. It's just not fulfilling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:What are some of your must-haves? Okay, so are we talking like foundations? Are we talking anything? Anything? Can I walk you? Okay, walk me through it. We have hd stick. So this is for, yeah, who wants to go from medium to full coverage. This is like flawless skin your skin is going to look glowing heaven, it's going to look porcelain. So hd stick by makeup forever. Then you want the water tone by makeup forever, which is discontinued. So if you can get it, like me, I'm going to run and get it now. That's face and body. It's like face and body.
Speaker 1:It's really identical from from. There was a makeup forever.
Speaker 2:Face and body wasn't there, um, it's, it's called water tone, so it's water tone. Okay, the equivalent um and so. But face and body isn't is my, was my next one? Actually, face and body is the best luminous silk by armani. Yeah, these are the foundations that I love to use, um, but again, it might vary, you know what you love, depending on your clientele and stuff. Uh, because you always have to have something for everyone when you're working bridal for oily skin, so it's always about long lasting longevity I don't have to worry about so much.
Speaker 2:Uh, and for what else? For prep, skin prep. I love massaging the skin. I think that's the most important thing to do is deep hydration. So I love, I'm using, actually the embryolisse la creme concentrate love embryolisse, of course, and they have a whole range of products that you know most people don't know about. So they have like really insanely rich creams, like the wellader skin foods that I love to use as like highlights instead of like shimmery products. So they they have a really thick cream, think Elizabeth Arden 8-Hour Cream, which is also a hottie on the list and a Gua Sha tool by O Cosmetics. It heats up, it has a metal plate, it's red light and I find that massaging the product in with that tool makes everything glow. It makes all the difference. It brings blood flow to the cheeks and also you actually relax the model's face. You'll see their shoulders coming down and they will actually shoot better. Yeah, cool, cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just had another question that I wanted to ask a while back, but I forgot Hair. You do hair as well, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So I am not at the level I am with makeup, but hair is something that again, you know, when I get something in my mind, I was just sick of losing work, that you had to be a hairstylist and makeup artist. I was like I'm sick of losing these jobs. I love hair, I want to work with hair. I just don't know what to do. So, you know, my tunnel vision sent me into like a hair spiral, so I went and did a Cameron Jane course during lockdown as well.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I luckily, of course, being in the in the industry so long, have so many amazing hair hairstylist friends that are doing the jobs that I, you know, I'm hired for editorial work, so when I'm with them, I ask them to teach me what products I. Pretty much what I did was I looked at their kits and I said what are your tools that you're using? I copied and pasted those tools because I thought, oh, my god, okay, they're going to help me work a little bit better. And yeah, and I went from there. But I think it really helps to do both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure and you're always learning god yeah, um, any words of wisdom or advice, for you know an artist who would love to be like you. Do what you do, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, so you know you have the okay. So what you have against you is that there you and everyone else wants to be a makeup artist. You've gotta really love it. This is the tell sign if you're going to succeed or not. You're willing to do it. On the days that are dark, that you have no clients it still brings you joy to do it. You're willing to do it on the days that are dark, that you have no clients it still brings you joy to do it. You're willing to do it when you're successful and you have, and you're overloaded with stress and work and you think I can't do anymore. I can't take anymore. I feel like I'm not doing enough. Um, you know you'll have. You'll have all those feelings at once, I suppose. But that's what you have against you, but what you have for you is an incredible beauty community out there. Beauty is, everyone loves it. Everyone loves makeup. My husband's niece wants to be a makeup artist.
Speaker 2:When I was starting, I didn't know one makeup artist not one. I had no one to talk to about that. But now you have an amazing community that you can actually build on and you can showcase your work online. You can connect with people all over the world, amazing community that you can actually build on and you can showcase your work online and you can connect with people all over the world, and I think that is invaluable. So you have that. That's going for you and I would recommend that you just work as hard as you can build incredible relationships, leave your ego at the door, be willing to do as many test shoots as possible, assist as much as you want sorry, as much as you can, and I think that it all comes down to being a really kind. Great energy and work will flow to you because people are going to want to work with you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great advice. Just thought of another question Do you take assistants? Do you work with assistants?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually love to work with various different assistants because, again, I love to give them the opportunity to learn and to have their foot in the door, and I always meet new people. So I think, what was it? A couple of weeks ago, I had three different assistants that I hadn't worked with, and that is a risk on my part, always because it might not be a great result, I might not like their energy if I haven't met them before, but I always, you know, give them a go because I want to make sure that I'm bringing new blood into the industry and filling it.
Speaker 1:What's the best way to approach you for that? Is it the same as the Fashion Week, sort of thing? Email.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep. And again, like communicate with the artist you want to work with If you love their work and support them. That'll be organic anyway, like you'll be doing that and chatting with them and it's like so nice to speak with people that, um, you know, love the same thing you do. Like it's so exciting for me and for them. Um, yeah, and then, of course, I think a good email is essential, and I didn't know that until I started receiving them and I thought, whoa, that's awesome, how did you think of that? So that would be my takeaway An email you can't say no to, basically, totally.
Speaker 2:And also like keep annoying me, keep annoying people because I might see something. And then I've got like one million other emails and one million other DMs or things to do and I'll go, oh, cool, and then somebody actually will then message me the next week and go, hey, just you know, a reminder that I would love to work with you you know the next year and then I'll go oh yeah, sorry, let me like screenshot this, put this into my little folder and I'll let them, you know, and I'll let them know when I can.
Speaker 2:But kind of coming up again and again and saying, just love your work, you know opportunity, and yeah, reminding them that you're there and I think that's true for everything you do in life is just keep coming up because someone might forget. But it doesn't mean that you're not wanted or right for the role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. Thank you so much. I have loved hearing your story today. It's been a it's been a great one to listen to, so thank you so much for your time so much thanks for having me. Can't wait to see your fashion week looks oh girl, me too.
Speaker 2:What are they gonna be?
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.